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Whither PFO?

MidknightDiamond
Elsworth Sugarfoot
All right I'll break it down:

Our two feuding companies have just over 1600 influence.
People who know more about these things than me tell me that to put holdings and outposts down that would be enough to generate about 250 bulk resources a day.

So that's our cost to feud you.

250 bulk resources a day.

That's the meaningful choice we've made. We give that up and feud you instead.
Approx. 1.25g (more if it were trade goods) worth of bulk resources.

*sarcasm* Not that gold matters through, right? Cause of course Phy has like 50,000 of it and isn't sharing. */sarcasm*

On another note, they risk LOSING that night. Risk that losing all that gear, the time, influence, and not gaining anything if they're denied. The disconnect I see is that, they don't care before even in losing they're winning because they get to play the game, they get to fight people they like fighting. Not because they're being bullies, not because they're being griefers, but because they're fighting other players that are good at fighting other players.

Again, diplomacy… it does work. Hire outside to get people to fight for you. I hear Duffy likes money, heh, and you could even try Zerr. He might have started his company for pve escalations but who knows unless you ask. Heck, you really really want to work at it, try diplomacy to convince others to help you fight, give them other targets. Sure, it'd cause chaos across the server but then more people would definitely be involved on a regular basis.
Aurora Silverstar, Pathfinder University Quartermaster & Explorer
Kiernan Silverstar, Aurora's lazy & good-for-nothing younger brother who just likes to blow things up.

PM MidknightDiamond on Paizo Forum
Bringslite
Elsworth Sugarfoot
All right I'll break it down:

Our two feuding companies have just over 1600 influence.
People who know more about these things than me tell me that to put holdings and outposts down that would be enough to generate about 250 bulk resources a day.

So that's our cost to feud you.

250 bulk resources a day.

That's the meaningful choice we've made. We give that up and feud you instead.

This thread is (kinda) getting back to a discussion instead of distractions and rabble-rabble noise? Sweet!

@ Elsworth or any with the answer

Curiosity: If you don't mind answering, how many feuds would you state that you start on an average day?
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
MidknightDiamond
Beinion
MidknightDiamond
Beinion
We want less pvp not more ! s
So… negotiate a ceasefire? Honestly I have to agree with Elsworth, there should be PVP opportunities 24/7. The windows for outpost/holding captures are a bit annoying but they do serve to 'sort of' show an organized time muster between such events so I can see that as necessary. Settlement warfare and siege (when it comes in) should take more than a few days as well and hopefully will be an interesting multi-layered thing.

But seriously, diplomacy, it CAN work!
Don't want a ceasefire I like the pvp I just think they should have a cost that is not on us or we gain something when we push them back for a week straight so we are not forced to bend knee to an extortionist company or burn out doing what they want to do every night I don't agree with the only weekend pvp but it would get me to log back in as it is now I am out till something changes because the way it is does not work for me and if that is the way it is suppose to the I will just find a different game as many ppl have said GW needs to say what kind of game they want this to be
It doesn't have to be a total ceasefire, negotiate something that works for you, for all of you. That's the beauty of diplomacy- you can discuss, compromise, cooperate, all sorts of things. Hell, negotiate an every other night thing, I dunno. Options are pretty wide-open when you set your mind to it.
Aurora Silverstar, Pathfinder University Quartermaster & Explorer
Kiernan Silverstar, Aurora's lazy & good-for-nothing younger brother who just likes to blow things up.

PM MidknightDiamond on Paizo Forum
Elsworth Sugarfoot
Lucius
Ya that seems meaningful when ya throw numbers around, don't mean its a real cost if you don't need the resources. Seems like its not really a choice for ya and you dont have to make a hard decision about it so it's not meaningful in the least.

For it to be meaningful or a sacrifice it needs to actually be a burden ya have to put something ya want or need on the line. Pretty sure that ain't happening. Context is important, just cause you made a choice doesn't make it important.

Well that's on GW. The fact that bulk resources are essentially worthless atm is a design choice. I'd like to see things done to make them more valuable, and I think that's what Nihimon is asking for when he wants more meaning. He wants to be able to show up at our holdings and inflict real damage on us such that we would be forced to rethink our behavior, and I agree with him on that point.
Lucius
Midnight
You don't like us. That's clear to anyone reading.

But your bias is willfully blinding you to the fact that as long as they are losing in their own timezone, even if we had picked our PvP window to accommodate them, the only difference would be WHERE they lost tons of gear.

Then get yer leaders to swap your window and shut all the naysayers up prove em all full of sh*t with their bellyaching. They aint exactly keepin your EU folk busy from the sounds of it aint serving no purpose despite yer claims.

Anyways we both know it wont happen so instead the platitudes and propaganda will continue til one of ya sides quits for whatever reason. Even if ya did the first night they win you'd probably run right back and make up some excuse about why ya lost that day and its unfair now and start this all over again.

All very meaningful game play where victory's through mechanics attrition.
Midnight
Beinion
We want less pvp not more ! I enjoy the pve and gathering unlike most of exo that only does it to be able to pvp and we can't attack you when you fudging company has no holding yes we can start a fued but we can do that even if you done attack so your attack has no risk what is that actually risk you take by attackING
And to the post below yours (I do t k ow how yo do another quote ) all of those risks and costs are also on us so that is not a risk for the attackers it is a Risk for both sides

Why does the largest bloc in the game think that our influence expenditures should benefit them?

This thread has already laid out the risks. This thread has already laid out the costs (including the 250 bulk goods opportunity cost). You and yours seem to think that part of the "risk" should be us paying influence for your aggression instead of YOU paying the influence for your aggression.

Your bloc is making meaningful choices everyday you don't feud us with your own influence, as well as when you don't even show up in our PvP window (during a feud we declared with OUR influence) like this morning when we had a holding right outside of Phaeros.

The PvP was there for the taking, at OUR expense. It was the much vaunted Phaeros library, overrun by Golgothans on a previous night, and completely vulnerable to recapture in our window on a U.S. afternoon. No one from your side showed. Heck, even *we* had almost no one there because we were busy looking for whichever escalation hex your bloc was hiding in.

But your bloc would rather complain than make a recapture attempt.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Elsworth Sugarfoot
@bringslite It depends on our plans, but here's Nightcrawlers' current active feuds.

http://i.imgur.com/KwLGO5U.jpg
Just Dak
Elsworth Sugarfoot
Lucius
Ya that seems meaningful when ya throw numbers around, don't mean its a real cost if you don't need the resources. Seems like its not really a choice for ya and you dont have to make a hard decision about it so it's not meaningful in the least.

For it to be meaningful or a sacrifice it needs to actually be a burden ya have to put something ya want or need on the line. Pretty sure that ain't happening. Context is important, just cause you made a choice doesn't make it important.

Well that's on GW. The fact that bulk resources are essentially worthless atm is a design choice. I'd like to see things done to make them more valuable, and I think that's what Nihimon is asking for when he wants more meaning. He wants to be able to show up at our holdings and inflict real damage on us such that we would be forced to rethink our behavior, and I agree with him on that point.
I also agree on that point.
Give me a reasonable despot any day. Someone that constantly reminds everyone that they are virtuous and honorable can not be trusted to be either. If you are good we will know by your deeds, if you are reasonable we will know by our deals.
Elsworth Sugarfoot
A new numbers guy is telling me it's more like 350+ bulk per day with 1600 influence if everything is done right.

I don't really think the number matters that much except that it's A LOT of bulk resources (over 1000 for just a 3 day feud), and it's not that valuable to either side.
Midnight
Lucius
Midnight
You don't like us. That's clear to anyone reading.

But your bias is willfully blinding you to the fact that as long as they are losing in their own timezone, even if we had picked our PvP window to accommodate them, the only difference would be WHERE they lost tons of gear.

Then get yer leaders to swap your window and shut all the naysayers up prove em all full of sh*t with their bellyaching. They aint exactly keepin your EU folk busy from the sounds of it aint serving no purpose despite yer claims.

Today, a Saturday, at 12:30 p.m. Pacific, 3:30 p.m Eastern they refused to come and recapture their much vaunted library right outside of Phaeros in a feud that WE paid for KNOWING it would give them the chance to strike back on a weekend.

It's obvious that, rather than come out and fight (at our influence cost), they'd rather complain we don't give them the chance in front of an audience that doesn't get to see the reality. I actually wonder if I can scroll up and find them making that complaint WHILE the PvP window was open and we were waiting for them.

I'm sure the forever war bores the heck out of neutral folks, but if anyone really cares about who is and isn't fair, they should come out and witness the truth for themselves.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
 
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