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Make PvP Meaningful

Duffy Swiftshadow
Kinda curious, how many of you view PvP as a means to an ends vs other mechanics as a means to the end that is simply PvP activity?
Dreaden
All my activities outside pvp are done so that I am as effective as possible in group combat. Farm resources to sell so that I can buy gear. Farm monsters for achievements so I can train and expendables/recipes to sell for gear.
Drogon
@smitty

I personally don't have a problem if you decide to attack us daily. I also don't think diplomacy would work because if all you guys want to do everyday is PVP then no diplomacy is going to make you stop looking for PVP. I really dislike the weekend only idea because I agree that it would be too limiting. I don't want to see EoX or Phaeros quit the game.
The only answer I see is if somehow by winning a battle or a few days of feuding you could degrade the enemy in the short term that would deter a persistent attack. You would have to earn a reprieve not be given one. Defenders could then opt to take the reprieve or counter attack. How this could be done with tech and mechanics without exploitation, I honestly have no idea….
HpoD - "I have, however, sat and watched as others took things more personally (on both sides) and became zealots, charging forward on a shining white horse into a pile of shit. Forum Warriors at their peak, striding the battlefield knee deep in the bloody, broken arguments of their adversaries before the burning village of their credibility….Chill guys. "
Drogon
Why don't we set up some 12 v 12 together while feuded. We could fight over a mule in the center of the hex loaded with goodies. One side gets Zycor and the other side gets Xanne as thier 13th man picking off from the bushes anyone who evades out to heal….that sounds fun to me….smile
HpoD - "I have, however, sat and watched as others took things more personally (on both sides) and became zealots, charging forward on a shining white horse into a pile of shit. Forum Warriors at their peak, striding the battlefield knee deep in the bloody, broken arguments of their adversaries before the burning village of their credibility….Chill guys. "
Midnight
Although I want to be ABLE to… I don't want to DO combat PvP every night.

There are lots of parts of this game that I have grown to enjoy that can entertain me.

What I do want to do is combat PvP constantly against anyone who has clearly shown themselves to be an enemy. THAT, I celebrate. But without a real enemy, PvP can feel as hollow as any other part of the game you do too much of.

In a land where everyone is playing nice, I can play nice, because I know that in sandboxes it never lasts.

In Eve, even the most avid PvPers spent a ton of time doing PvE just so they'd have the ability to survive the Winter war season. I didn't get it at first, being all sunbelt-for-life, but winter is the crazy time in Eve because the Northern snowbelt (around the world) has nothing better to do but PvP and they get very very serious about it.

I'd laugh if the Coal Road turned out to be a Russian gaming guild stockpiling for the winter.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Edam
Making the PvP window a little shorter (say 5%) for each day the feud continues past day 2 would solve the problem of indefinite feuds for taking holdings.

It would however make no difference to people wanting indefinite feuds for the purpose of "gud fights" and rep loss free PvP opportunities.
vyal
Duffy Swiftshadow
Kinda curious, how many of you view PvP as a means to an ends vs other mechanics as a means to the end that is simply PvP activity?
After 20 years of PvP'ing, 1v1 is pointless, for me. It gets incredibly tedious, boring, and annoying after doing it for years at a time, which I've been there done that far too much. From what I've seen so far, PFO's flavor of 1v1 PvP, currently, is as unbalanced, buggy, and murderhobo-pointless as it gets. /shrug

Dreaden
All my activities outside pvp are done so that I am as effective as possible in group combat. Farm resources to sell so that I can buy gear. Farm monsters for achievements so I can train and expendables/recipes to sell for gear.
I agree with Dreaden, this is a good summary for me, as well. I vastly prefer group combat, and working together to achieve a goal. This, to me, is far more rewarding and meaningful than 1v1 PvP.

Personally, I derive far more enjoyment from being part of a cohesive team completing a difficult task than any other form of MMO activity.

You'll find that my experiences are why I crowdforge/theorycraft in favor of insulated PvP rather than direct, to remove the ego reward, expand the demographic, and improve the genre. From my perspective, repeating the mistakes of past MMO's is the most pointless waste of time and resources imaginable.
Midnight
Drogon
@smitty

I personally don't have a problem if you decide to attack us daily. I also don't think diplomacy would work because if all you guys want to do everyday is PVP then no diplomacy is going to make you stop looking for PVP. I really dislike the weekend only idea because I agree that it would be too limiting. I don't want to see EoX or Phaeros quit the game.
The only answer I see is if somehow by winning a battle or a few days of feuding you could degrade the enemy in the short term that would deter a persistent attack. You would have to earn a reprieve not be given one. Defenders could then opt to take the reprieve or counter attack. How this could be done with tech and mechanics without exploitation so I honestly have no idea….

The way to get a reprieve from holding warfare is to take down the holdings. I'm still surprised that the self professed "casuals" aren't crowdforging for the ability to do tear downs that put the holding back into inventory.

It is an incredibly weekend-warrior friendly idea.

But it isn't fair to keep holdings (and the benefits and power one gets and will get) 23/7 but not have to defend them daily.

In fact, I'd be okay with 23/7 PvP windows on holdings if they'd make it so you could easily pack them up or transfer them. I don't see why I deserve passive benefits and power all day yet only have to defend it an hour a day. I ought to have to pack up my holding or tag-team it to another company (or risk it being taken in my company's absence) when my company isn't logged in, or is busy doing other things.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Duffy Swiftshadow
vyal
Duffy Swiftshadow
Kinda curious, how many of you view PvP as a means to an ends vs other mechanics as a means to the end that is simply PvP activity?
After 20 years of PvP'ing, 1v1 is pointless, for me. It gets incredibly tedious, boring, and annoying after doing it for years at a time, which I've been there done that far too much. From what I've seen so far, PFO's flavor of 1v1 PvP, currently, is as unbalanced, buggy, and murderhobo-pointless as it gets. /shrug

Dreaden
All my activities outside pvp are done so that I am as effective as possible in group combat. Farm resources to sell so that I can buy gear. Farm monsters for achievements so I can train and expendables/recipes to sell for gear.
I agree with Dreaden, this is a good summary for me, as well. I vastly prefer group combat, and working together to achieve a goal. This, to me, is far more rewarding and meaningful than 1v1 PvP.

Personally, I derive far more enjoyment from being part of a cohesive team completing a difficult task than any other form of MMO activity.

You'll find that my experiences are why I crowdforge/theorycraft in favor of insulated PvP rather than direct, to remove the ego reward, expand the demographic, and improve the genre. From my perspective, repeating the mistakes of past MMO's is the most pointless waste of time and resources imaginable.

Curious again: why are you referencing 1v1 PvP in response to my question? Did you misinterpret something or are you trying to illustrate an example? I was not in the least thinking about scale of PvP in my phrasing so curious what you saw that made you want to include it in your response.
Duffy Swiftshadow
Midnight
Drogon
@smitty

I personally don't have a problem if you decide to attack us daily. I also don't think diplomacy would work because if all you guys want to do everyday is PVP then no diplomacy is going to make you stop looking for PVP. I really dislike the weekend only idea because I agree that it would be too limiting. I don't want to see EoX or Phaeros quit the game.
The only answer I see is if somehow by winning a battle or a few days of feuding you could degrade the enemy in the short term that would deter a persistent attack. You would have to earn a reprieve not be given one. Defenders could then opt to take the reprieve or counter attack. How this could be done with tech and mechanics without exploitation so I honestly have no idea….

The way to get a reprieve from holding warfare is to take down the holdings. I'm still surprised that the self professed "casuals" aren't crowdforging for the ability to do tear downs that put the holding back into inventory.

It is an incredibly weekend-warrior friendly idea.

But it isn't fair to keep holdings (and the benefits and power one gets and will get) 23/7 but not have to defend them daily.

In fact, I'd be okay with 23/7 PvP windows on holdings if they'd make it so you could easily pack them up or transfer them. I don't see why I deserve passive benefits and power all day yet only have to defend it an hour a day. I ought to have to pack up my holding or tag-team it to another company (or risk it being taken in my company's absence) when my company isn't logged in, or is busy doing other things.

I would argue technically you only benefit from holdings once a day, so making them attackable right before you get that benefit sounds pretty fair. (As it currently stands anyways)

Not to rehash arguments but I really feel there is a huge disconnect in cause, effect, and purpose between people discussing all these things and I don't think it's gonna get resolved in discussions here. I think it's too fundamental a difference in subjective enjoyment.
 
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