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Make PvP Meaningful

Baron Malthius
Ok I have an idea for a system to address all this in a way that doesn't completely benefit only one extreme over another:

1) Change feuding from Company level to Settlement level

First and foremost, do this. Since most of the recent changes have begun to move feuding in that direction already, I say just complete the transition now. It won't completely remove settlement hopping on its own, but company hopping within a settlement is pretty much a moot point.

However, with EE11, DI will be a major factor for settlement development. I think this addition combined with having the ability for simply going through the settlement without having to micromanage which companies can feud whomever at any given time will greatly reduce any benefits that could be gained from it. It would make these practices increasingly unnecessary.

2) Along with DI for EE11, introduce a parallel index feature for determining a settlement's ability to wage war

Since we will have DI in EE11 to determine training level for settlements, why not also have something like a Logistics Index (can't think of a better name right now) to determine ability to feud and defend? Think of it like an abstraction of an army's supply line.

Having an LI will be required if any feuds are to be declared by any settlement, but having a higher LI means that more feuds can be declared, or perhaps influence the costs of doing so in some way. This will provide a means to temporarily knock out a settlement's means of waging war while at the same time giving those more warlike settlements a boon for actually taking the time to increase their capacity to do so. Have longer feuds with higher LI or feud several settlements at once as starters.

Another possible use for LI could be down the road used for hiring personal town guards that still attack enemies even if the settlement is feuded. Having higher LI could also go to allowing stronger ones too. In this case, for the duration of a feud the LI would be locked down in the case of guards so that they can continue to fight at the same strength. Once the feud is done they will be adjusted to their new LI.

Important Note: While technically it is an optional thing and shouldn't affect the settlement's DI, having no LI does NOT make you immune to being feuded. It just means you are not able to counterfeud in return.

3) Repurpose some of those unused holding types (Barracks, Shrines, etc.) to provide the currency for starting feuds instead of influence

Since now that everyone has moved over to bulk resources for stockpiling in settlements and DI, we aren't going to see those other holding types again unless a new use if found for them.

Making those unused holding types count towards LI is a great way to repurpose them, but that is not all they can do. Have those unused holdings/outposts create a different set of bulk resources to replace it. One kind can be used as a direct cost to starting feuds instead of using influence. Another can be used for things like guard upkeep or fortifications once full siege warfare comes into play. It can easily be tweaked.

Of course, don't make these war resources generate at the same rate as the rest of the bulk resources, since we don't want them to become too easily stockpiled. These should generate at a much slower pace.

Naturally, these repurposed holdings should still use the regular Bulk Resources for their upkeep and to count towards LI the upkeep needs to be paid. Hopefully that won't be much of a burden though. If it is too easy, make them require additional resources. Also consider a cooldown period for a war holding to take effect, perhaps 24 hours.

4) Use the bulk resources from LI generating holdings in a similar way that influence is currently used now for feuds, but have a company's LI give a bonus to resources that are refunded

Designate a bulk resource for spending on feuds like Bulk Armaments. Make the spending on it similar to how influence is used by companies right now. Some of those resources should get refunded, but at a much lesser amount. I would propose the resources refunded be 50% initially, with a greater percentage regained based on LI AFTER the feud has ended. It keeps the incentive to build up more LI and damage the enemy LI. That loss of LI will then be felt in multiple areas of warfare while a gain in LI will be a big boon.

Put together, this system is an attempt at taking the best of both worlds. There would be more risk in making a more warlike settlement, but far more reward in doing so and can easily result in a positive feedback loop. Those who wanna fight more can build up to fight even more frequently and if they do it well can go for a long time in constant warfare. However, the perpetual war machine can actually be brought down in a far more tangible and harder hitting way. Losing LI will not be a permanent thing but it will take the wind out of someone's sails and leave them more vulnerable, but not to the point where the opponent can't make a comeback.
Midnight
Company hopping might become a more meaningful choice when workers and bosses are instituted. Which would be sad if it happens before we can be members of 3 companies at a time. like we were promised.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Yrme
Midnight
Company hopping might become a more meaningful choice when workers and bosses are instituted. Which would be sad if it happens before we can be members of 3 companies at a time. like we were promised.

If I recall correctly, only one of the three companies could belong to a settlement. The other two could not be part of any settlement, so they would be social groups. (In this game of bunny-hopping between companies, they'd be the strike companies with no fixed base that could be attacked… which is why I think the three-company idea should be mercifully killed by GW.)
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
I can see company hoping for the purpose of participating in a feud, but not so much for escaping one, during mid combat.

Otherwise, how are mercenaries supposed to function?
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Bringslite
……and, please delete me.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Midnight
When I wanted more sanctioned PvP I was told (by Nihimon and others) that I needed to be patient and wait many months for feuds. "The game is still under development" people told me.

Now that Nihimon wants to be able to neuter opponents he is "victorious" over, I'm going to suggest he might need to be patient and wait many months for threading.

With threading (and threading limits) in the game, if EBA really was as victorious as they feel they were in kills, we'd be dropping gear and they'd be picking it up like wild.

As it is, they seem to think that blobbing a tiny box and watching a counter count up ought to stop our ability to attack, for days on end. In fact, the way to neuter your opponents is through gear churn, which the EBA has failed to do to us because regardless of counters in tiny boxes, THEY are the ones sent to the shrine the most, and THEY are the ones whose leaders show up naked and in tier 1 armor further into the campaign.

Threading will reward the best combat force (the people who send their opponents to the shrine the most) with even more gear churn on their enemies than now, thanks to dropped unthreaded gear. One single death could leave a lot of gear on a husk. With 5 pieces of high level gear equipped (armor, 2 weapons, 2 implements) instead of losing a total of 5 durability on a death, someone sent to the shrine could lose the equivalent of 20, 40, or even 60 durability on a single death if 1,2, or 3 items drop, and the force that sent them to the shrine could GAIN the dropped gear from husks. Throw in the utility slots (boots, gloves, etc.) and it is even sweeter for the victor and rougher on the victim.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Bringslite
……and, please delete me.

Are you serious?

Is it forum drama? Is it a realization that the game is not what you expected?

Honestly though, I don't see how any of this has anything to do with you or your company or settlement? From what I know OV is not really involved.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Bringslite
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Bringslite
……and, please delete me.

Are you serious?

Is it forum drama? Is it a realization that the game is not what you expected?

Honestly though, I don't see how any of this has anything to do with you or your company or settlement? From what I know OV is not really involved.

???^^I don't get that^^???

You do know that you can't delete a post once it is sent?

Honestly and I mean in an honest way, where PVP mechanics are and where they are going to, is important to all of us. At least I feel that way. You must too, or why would you be here?

Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Thod-Theodum
@Bringslide
Typical internet miscimmunication - guess Doc assumed you would want to be deleted from PFO and not just have the single post deleted.
And there is a 50:50% chance this post will help or further enhance any confusion
Thod/Theodum are the OOC/IC leaders of the Emerald Lodge - a neutral settlement in the center of the mal that tries to the first to explore the Emerald Spire - should that part of the game ever become available. We have a strong in game and out of game relationship with the Pathfinder Society.
We welcome both hard core players as well as casual players with or without tabletop experience. We have a strong group in Europe and are slowly expanding into the US. We are predominately PvE as our neutral political stance means that we tend to use PvP only in self-defence. We are not anti-PVP - but expect limited PvP opportunity with us.
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Bringslite, when you personify your post as "me", it does get confusing.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
 
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