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Make PvP Meaningful

Drogon
Duffy Swiftshadow
Personally I would say it's the prize, not the win condition.
I like it… Can we put a blue ribbon on it too? smile
HpoD - "I have, however, sat and watched as others took things more personally (on both sides) and became zealots, charging forward on a shining white horse into a pile of shit. Forum Warriors at their peak, striding the battlefield knee deep in the bloody, broken arguments of their adversaries before the burning village of their credibility….Chill guys. "
Rynnik
Drogon
Rynnik
Drogon
Eox has won their fair share of battles and so has the EBA. Just depends on the day…. GF all

Some of these points that Nihimon are making are valid. The PVP system would be more fun if there were some clear win mechanics. More people would participate which means more PVP for everyone on any given day. People that didn't want to PVP daily could rotate in and out because there would be more people looking forward to play. As of now the server is losing participants because the mechanics are wonky.

I don't want ANYONE on either side to quit the game…. We all need each other to help make this game successful..
Very much agreed Drogon that people quitting over parts of the game is bad.

Gotta ask what specifically in transfer of a holding ownership doesn't feel like a tangible win condition to you as a player?
I think there should be others but I do actually think this is a tangible win condition.
However, for arguments sake, let's say the game mechanics are/were indeed bugged enough to allow the attacker an easy win or even the defender a distinct advantage. Wouldn't you agree the "win" should have an asterix beside it? My point is, if I "win", I want to do it in a way that there can be no doubt that it was a win and right now the game mechanics need to be adjusted some in order for that to happen. There is too much grey area right now for either side to be able to declare a definitive win. But I just try to keep in mind we are still in EE and it is a work in progress….which means it is all still fun and games for me personally….
You aren't asking for different mechanics then. I think you are just supporting bug fixes?

Am I correct in saying that?

If I understand you correctly we are exactly on the same page. Bugs cheapen everything and add negative spin on all kinds of things that would otherwise be good to go. The mechanics once polished seem well placed to provide meaning. Please fix the bugs! (And for the record I think they are doing exactly that already and making good progress at it)
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Midnight
While I completely understand a gamer wanting clear victory conditions, the nature of sandboxes is to mirror reality.

In the real world, both sides can declare victory as evidenced by Baghdad Bob.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sahhaf

In games like Eve we see the same kind of propaganda and spin, even when it is clear to a neutral observer who is getting trounced.

It's where the meme "We didn't want that outpost, anyway" comes from.

That's why I always invite people to come out and see for themselves, if they actually care about the forever war.

Sometimes you'll see me running like a frightened schoolgirl from 2 to 1 odds. Other times you'll see me and my mates coolly and efficiently dispatching the enemy to the shrine with frightening power even while outnumbered. Once I looked at how many of them there were versus us and actually asked on comms "How are we winning this? I'm here and I still don't understand".

But what I believe a neutral witness will see (win or lose for us), is an accurate description from us of what happened. I think the reason for that may be that, as the underdogs, we're not expected to win all the time, and it allows for not having to pretend we won (both in internal communications and external communications).

I can only imagine what the enemy's after-battle comms sound like on a night when 15 of them go home nude while 4 of ours go home nude. Externally, they can tell you they won, but as far as internal communications… what the heck are they telling each other?
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Avari
Midnight
… what the heck are they telling each other?

That we won.

EBA's strength was always in its ability to field the casuals that are turned off by EoX's brand of play. That means more players but not all of them are dedicated PvP'ers. So who cares if your KD is awesome cuz you sent our T1's home naked. You lost, time and time again because those same T1's gave us the #'s to win. Yeah sometimes we showed up with more of those casuals than usual, hence fielding a force you could beat outnumbered 3-1 and you'd feel super uber and beat your chest about it.

But KD's aren't winning the battle. Winning the battle is winning the battle. And make no mistake about it, you lost 5 times as many battles as you won.
Midnight
And yet it feels like your side lost so much gear that they decided it was cheaper to let Phaeros' holdings be captured and just BUY bulk goods.

Generating bulk goods is only viable for peaceful settlements, now that holdings can be attacked.

By the way, Luther is very disappointed in your unwillingness to show up these last few nights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwwY9y6O3hw
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Midnight
Avari
So who cares if your KD is awesome cuz you sent our T1's home naked.

From where I sit, I've recently seen people like Cheatle ARRIVING naked and Decius ARRIVING in T1.

Maybe there's a logical explanation (and surely there's a spin) but that makes me think that even your best PvPers are running out of gear.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Decius
Midnight
Avari
So who cares if your KD is awesome cuz you sent our T1's home naked.

From where I sit, I've recently seen people like Cheatle ARRIVING naked and Decius ARRIVING in T1.

Maybe there's a logical explanation (and surely there's a spin) but that makes me think that even your best PvPers are running out of gear.

Umm… I don't have a PvP character. I have an Aristocrat with some t2 combat skills, a crafter, a gatherer, a market manipulator, a character accumulating XP in anticipation of an unanticipated role change, and a spy. If dedicated PvP builds are measuring themselves against any of those characters, then I'm flattered to have the skill to overcome four months of noncombatant XP spent.
Fiery wind
TEO running out of gear? *chuckles* I haven't been around for like 4 months and I can assure you that's never gonna happen smile
Midnight
We had gotten used to seeing Decius Brutus in T2 armor.

After many gear breaking battles we started seeing Decius Brutus in T1 armor.

What should one conclude from such observations?

I ask, because there's a very logical and obvious conclusion that the average observer would draw from such observations.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Midnight
Orcyl
TEO running out of gear? *chuckles* I haven't been around for like 4 months and I can assure you that's never gonna happen smile

If they continue not wearing it to battles, it will last FOREVER!
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
 
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