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Crossing the Chasm

Baron Malthius
I agree with most of the Bluddwolf has said here. The only thing I would differ on is that for me anyway, even if the graphics and animations were better it wouldn't change much at this point. It's the other "quality of life" complaints that are the key problem and it makes the graphics items worse. Graphics can always be upgraded, animations can be made smoother and more polished, but if the gameplay is still terrible then I could care less how good it looks.

I do also think that the definition of MVP has been one heck of a stretch. Another big component that I am still surprised has not only not been implemented but has not been given priority at all is a decent Logging and Analytics system. That's an industry standard for not just games but many large scale software projects and the lack of it has been a catalyst for much of the grief and outrage if not one of the main sources of it.

Think about it, without analytics it is much harder to examine the numbers, how people are using different moves, training, gathering, markets, and so on. They wouldn't need us to crunch all the numbers on damage factors, resistances, healings, and all that, because they would already have those numbers on hand and would be able to easily check them out themselves.

Not only that but a lot of the accusations, forum drama, spawn camping, bug exploits, and so on could easily be verified if there was some means to do so. Think of how much grief, confusion, and misinformation would have been struck down really fast if there was a way to track these things. Exploits like money duping bug would have been locked down right away and responsible parties could have been easily been tracked down disciplined.

I know it is a very difficult thing to design and implement, I'm a software developer myself. Nevertheless, this was something that should have been done regardless of the additional overhead well before the game was brought out. Now it is becoming even less likely they will have the resources to do it with so many other things piled on top.

This is IMO one of the biggest and easily avoided blunders that was made here.

All the things mentioned here are examples of why I feel that this game was pushed out the door way too early.
Giorgio
Midnight
A dev needn't follow the forums to answer our questions on Wednesdays.

imaginary example:

"The people we've antagonized for years won't stop declaring feuds against us. Is this the way you want the game to be?"

"Yes, but with more gear churn".

smile

I enjoy your smile and understand the spirit with which it is delivered, but I believe a lot of players are dismissing legitimate problems with the game; just because you don't like the messenger, doesn't mean the message is not valid.

There are a LOT of players (in my view) who would like a clear understanding of the direction of the game, before they keep investing time, energy and real money for a game that is not right for them or their group. The sooner the PVP "ambiguity of trying to please three different player bases" (for lack of better term) is clarified, the sooner informed choices can be made.

I am neutral in the Forever War ™, but in the BluddwolF/Doc - Thod - Bringslite/Nihimon PVP scale, there are valid points of views and concerns that I feel are not being addressed by GW.
First Elder Durin Steelforge; Leader of Forgeholm; Founder of Steelforge Engineering Company

PM Giorgo on Paizo Forums
PM Admin George on Commonwealth of the Free Highlands
Giorgio
Baron Malthius
Another big component that I am still surprised has not only not been implemented but has not been given priority at all is a decent Logging and Analytics system.

(Quote edited for clarity)

+1 Agreed this is a fundamental problem; this subject deservers a whole new thread; it is a serious problem as attested by the constant "we have the data but can not analyze it" comments we get from devs regularly. This should be a priority for EE11-EE12; damn the settlement system and "big picture" projects. Fix the PVP & Combat bugs/systems, and get some hard data on what is actually going on in the game now.
First Elder Durin Steelforge; Leader of Forgeholm; Founder of Steelforge Engineering Company

PM Giorgo on Paizo Forums
PM Admin George on Commonwealth of the Free Highlands
Midnight
Giorgio
Midnight
A dev needn't follow the forums to answer our questions on Wednesdays.

imaginary example:

"The people we've antagonized for years won't stop declaring feuds against us. Is this the way you want the game to be?"

"Yes, but with more gear churn".

smile

I enjoy your smile and understand the spirit with which it is delivered, but I believe a lot of players are dismissing legitimate problems with the game; just because you don't like the messenger, doesn't mean the message is not valid.

There are a LOT of players (in my view) who would like a clear understanding of the direction of the game, before they keep investing time, energy and real money for a game that is not right for them or their group. The sooner the PVP "ambiguity of trying to please three different player bases" (for lack of better term) is clarified, the sooner informed choices can be made.

I am neutral in the Forever War ™, but in the BluddwolF/Doc - Thod - Bringslite/Nihimon PVP scale, there are valid points of views and concerns that I feel are not being addressed by GW.

People *should* ask devs their questions and crowdforge how they want the game to be.

My main resistance to forum Nihimon this week is his simple lack of patience. If there are life changing decisions to be made about staying with the game, they can wait until the weekly dev talk.

I see his persistence in casting his Summon Ryan spell (which by the way tends to be surprisingly effective, except this week) and wonder if he feels *entitled* to dev answers on *his* timetable.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Giorgio
Midnight
People *should* ask devs their questions and crowdforge how they want the game to be.

My main resistance to forum Nihimon this week is his simple lack of patience. If there are life changing decisions to be made about staying with the game, they can wait until the weekly dev talk.

I see his persistence in casting his Summon Ryan spell (which by the way tends to be surprisingly effective, except this week) and wonder if he feels *entitled* to dev answers on *his* timetable.

My main resistance is to everyone that tries to ignore what he is saying because it is Nihimon saying it, and all the blind hate/bad blood a segment of the player has to him, his group, and his very existence. I have been in this game since day 2 of the Tech Demo Kickstarter, patience is not the issue. The game being created and that we are paying for, is not the same as in the blogs and the one many of us signed up for.

I would wager there are MORE people who feels like him on this matter, but are not participating in the forums due to its hostility, toxicity, and lack of respect caused by the bitter Forever War™ forum warriors.

The overall sentiment he brings is not something that "just happened"; it has been building up for 9 months and brought to a boiling/critical point caused by the massive disruptions caused by EE10x; and the all the bugs/exploits/problems due to the majority of resources being used in the settlement system (maybe used by 10% of the player) and not all the more important systems to the 90% of the active players. I, and many others, strongly believe the GW priorities are wrong and detrimental to the game, its current state, the overwhelming amount of grind/burnout, and the deteriorating player population.
First Elder Durin Steelforge; Leader of Forgeholm; Founder of Steelforge Engineering Company

PM Giorgo on Paizo Forums
PM Admin George on Commonwealth of the Free Highlands
Giorgio
Midnight
My main resistance to forum Nihimon this week is his simple lack of patience. If there are life changing decisions to be made about staying with the game, they can wait until the weekly dev talk.

I see his persistence in casting his Summon Ryan spell (which by the way tends to be surprisingly effective, except this week) and wonder if he feels *entitled* to dev answers on *his* timetable.

Dev talks are not available to everyone and do not substitute a clear written statement and intent as per the standards set by the blogs.

If you feel he is "entitled" to anything, you clearly don't understand his concerns and where he is coming from; the Forever War™ might be blinding you to what is going on outside of your settlement, play style, and elements of the game you enjoy and don't participate in.
First Elder Durin Steelforge; Leader of Forgeholm; Founder of Steelforge Engineering Company

PM Giorgo on Paizo Forums
PM Admin George on Commonwealth of the Free Highlands
Midnight
If Thod was trying to summon Ryan with such persistence, I'd bag on *him* for it too.

I say that even though Emerald Lodge is my first choice for where a beaten and abused Midnight would go once her settlement burned.

I *will* admit it is fun to preach patience to Nihimon, since he preached it to me, though smile even if he was right when he preached it.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Giorgio
Midnight,

Agreed on Thod and EL; patience is easy to preach and hard to practice. smile

For the record, I know recently I have been a bit harsh and critical of the game, but I am very concerned for the direction and state of the game as of now; I plan on playing for 10 years (if I can!), so I am in this for the long run; I just hope the game survives that long with me. smile
First Elder Durin Steelforge; Leader of Forgeholm; Founder of Steelforge Engineering Company

PM Giorgo on Paizo Forums
PM Admin George on Commonwealth of the Free Highlands
Ravenlute
Everyone keeps crying about what "should" be in the game already and what needs to be done next but doing so isn't going to make it happen any faster. You know what would? If GW had more staff; the additional manpower to actually develop more features, quicker. They've got the ideas, their enemy is time and money.
Myl - Herald of Stone Bear Clan (Tavernhold)
"You can walk into Tavernhold but a horse will have to carry you out."
Midnight
I too cite a 10 year plan when talking to my mates on comms. I played Eve, so I can totally imagine it.

PFO doesn't have to stay the way it is to keep me around, but I am greatly enjoying it.

I just think that some of the stuff people are pushing against is simply the way of sandboxes. If you antagonize someone it rarely ends well (see BoB vs. Goonswarm), nor should it.

It must be hellish to face a relentless foe, but the only people that have to worry about it really worked very very hard for a long time to get into that situation.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
 
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