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Whither Forever War?

Midnight
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Ya can't start trouble if there ain't no trouble to be started. How am I supposed to go up to someone and say "STICK EM UP!" if there's no one around to steal from?

The world is very very empty right now. This weekend I only ran into 2 people and that's because I was going through towns looking for feud targets.

On the landscape away from towns I saw no one all weekend. That includes while doing T3 gathering (which ought to be in demand). No one was doing the escalations in those monster hexes, either. Not only was there no competition, but the hexes weren't even running out of T3 mats, which suggests no one else is hitting them when I'm gone.

It is a very very empty world right now. People are apparently waiting to hear about new investors before putting much more time into this game.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Midnight
Bringslite
@ Midnight

It is just a small thing, but I think it carries more weight than any war or other in game content so far.

It also takes a good deal of time.

Think about that. Far better than reckless PVP that eventually drives players away. Not that those things are entirely anyone's fault. The mechanics are not all in. Why should anyone temper their PVP play just because the mechanics aren't all in?

It's a great tool, but the goblinary is NOT in game content and a CHARACTER in The River Kingdoms has never heard of it. Early Enrollment was supposed to forge a River Kingdoms history for the O.E. hordes to walk into. For all its pettiness, The Forever War is one of the few examples of that actually occurring.

The PvP that you claim drives players away also attracts and retains players. That's the biggest problem even for those of us who want what is best for the game; remember I gave up banditry… and I still miss banditry. But I could give up banditry knowing that a safer coal field wasn't going to cause people to stop playing.

I can't crowdforge against warring as easily because I know it kept some people logging in and subscribed just as much as it drove some people away. At that point it just becomes a question of what kind of game do you want and whose friends will stay and whose are going to leave. The question of more or less PvP is a totally double-edged sword with no clear right answer even if you want what's best for the game, since you lose players either way.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Bringslite
Midnight
Bringslite
@ Midnight

It is just a small thing, but I think it carries more weight than any war or other in game content so far.

It also takes a good deal of time.

Think about that. Far better than reckless PVP that eventually drives players away. Not that those things are entirely anyone's fault. The mechanics are not all in. Why should anyone temper their PVP play just because the mechanics aren't all in?

It's a great tool, but the goblinary is NOT in game content and a CHARACTER in The River Kingdoms has never heard of it. Early Enrollment was supposed to forge a River Kingdoms history for the O.E. hordes to walk into. For all its pettiness, The Forever War is one of the few examples of that actually occurring.

The PvP that you claim drives players away also attracts and retains players. That's the biggest problem even for those of us who want what is best for the game; remember I gave up banditry… and I still miss banditry. But I could give up banditry knowing that a safer coal field wasn't going to cause people to stop playing.

I can't crowdforge against warring as easily because I know it kept some people logging in and subscribed just as much as it drove some people away. At that point it just becomes a question of what kind of game do you want and whose friends will stay and whose are going to leave. The question of more or less PvP is a totally double-edged sword with no clear right answer even if you want what's best for the game, since you lose players either way.

That is put well enough that I can agree with it, mostly. Not sure if it is propaganda or actual ingredient to the formula, but some groups did leave because of (they felt) excessive PVP and toxicity in the general chat and forums, both during and after gank fests.

Trying to be clear here because I know there are lots of different attitudes: I think that some players came in ready for "loose control PVP" and some players came in without the slightest clue what that even means.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Edam
Bringslite
That is put well enough that I can agree with it, mostly. Not sure if it is propaganda or actual ingredient to the formula, but some groups did leave because of (they felt) excessive PVP and toxicity in the general chat and forums, both during and after gank fests.

Trying to be clear here because I know there are lots of different attitudes: I think that some players came in ready for "loose control PVP" and some players came in without the slightest clue what that even means.
I am surprised this thread is still going and has not been locked weeks ago though I suppose its pointless locking it as the usual suspects will just harass each other in a new thread if this one is locked.

I do not think the issue has been "loose control PvP" for a long long time.

The problem of late has been too many people on both sides forgetting this is just a game and getting far far too personally wrapped up in perceived slights and getting angry and vindictive - to the detriment of the game as a whole and probably their own personal health and well being as well.
Midnight
Bringslite
Midnight
Bringslite
@ Midnight

It is just a small thing, but I think it carries more weight than any war or other in game content so far.

It also takes a good deal of time.

Think about that. Far better than reckless PVP that eventually drives players away. Not that those things are entirely anyone's fault. The mechanics are not all in. Why should anyone temper their PVP play just because the mechanics aren't all in?

It's a great tool, but the goblinary is NOT in game content and a CHARACTER in The River Kingdoms has never heard of it. Early Enrollment was supposed to forge a River Kingdoms history for the O.E. hordes to walk into. For all its pettiness, The Forever War is one of the few examples of that actually occurring.

The PvP that you claim drives players away also attracts and retains players. That's the biggest problem even for those of us who want what is best for the game; remember I gave up banditry… and I still miss banditry. But I could give up banditry knowing that a safer coal field wasn't going to cause people to stop playing.

I can't crowdforge against warring as easily because I know it kept some people logging in and subscribed just as much as it drove some people away. At that point it just becomes a question of what kind of game do you want and whose friends will stay and whose are going to leave. The question of more or less PvP is a totally double-edged sword with no clear right answer even if you want what's best for the game, since you lose players either way.

That is put well enough that I can agree with it, mostly. Not sure if it is propaganda or actual ingredient to the formula, but some groups did leave because of (they felt) excessive PVP and toxicity in the general chat and forums, both during and after gank fests.

Trying to be clear here because I know there are lots of different attitudes: I think that some players came in ready for "loose control PVP" and some players came in without the slightest clue what that even means.

Yeah, GW has been walking a fine line in trying to keep both groups happy.

I also feel that Phyllain should be singled out for having done the game a HUGE and HEROIC favor in not KNOWINGLY letting the war spread to settlements who want to sit it out. There are even Northern folks who took EoX towers who would still be stuck in the forever war (rather than merely having had a taste of it) if a less reasonable PvPer were running things.

What couldn't be helped (by EoX) is the players who weren't interested in PvP who belonged to settlements that kept showing up for the war. That was just bad internal policy by those settlements. Many southern companies recruited carebears without warning them that they would surely be targeted every time they were seen. I largely blame the recruiting companies/settlements/alliance for that, but a lot of those pvp-averse players also refused to go join a peaceful settlement, choosing to quit the game, instead. That tells me they weren't really all that interested in PFO itself as much as they wanted to be on what they thought would be the winning side of a blob friendly game.

Also, I want to stop and acknowledge that the people who purposely carved out peace in their section of The River Kingdoms (in the midst of a forever war constantly asking them to join in on one side or the other) have also forged part of the history. Peace on its own would have been no big deal in some games, but the forever war even made peace a noteworthy accomplishment in The River Kingdoms.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Midnight
Edam
The problem of late has been too many people on both sides forgetting this is just a game and getting far far too personally wrapped up in perceived slights and getting angry and vindictive - to the detriment of the game as a whole and probably their own personal health and well being as well.

I know you've played that other sandbox, so I only need to utter a single word to remind you that what you describe is inevitable in all sandboxes:

Kugutsumen
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Decius
Bringslite
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Gagnrath
Midnight
While it's a stupid war for stupid reasons (aren't they all?), it is practically the only player driven content outside of the auction house.

What have YOU done to forge the story of The River Kingdoms?

Just because the content hasn't involved you, doesn't mean other players haven't created plenty of content smile

Yep,

Some of us ARE trying to stir things up around here outside of this war. smile

It seems only my partner in crime Cormac (aka Magus) has had any luck though. I dunno how, cause when I'm on I can't seem to find anybody. With all these auction houses, trade guilds, and crafting settlements I keep reading about on here ya think I would have found someone up and about by now.

Ya can't start trouble if there ain't no trouble to be started. How am I supposed to go up to someone and say "STICK EM UP!" if there's no one around to steal from?

Hell of a good question. I can only suggest that you may have to tough things out until the population gets larger. We are doing that. We are building a solid base so that when there is a surge of new players, we will be ready. AKA, Flood Insurance.
Exactly. Long-view recruitment plans must include causing to exist a game with enough players to recruit.
Bringslite
"I also feel that Phyllain should be singled out for having done the game a HUGE and HEROIC favor in not KNOWINGLY letting the war spread to settlements who want to sit it out. There are even Northern folks who took EoX towers who would still be stuck in the forever war (rather than merely having had a taste of it) if a less reasonable PvPer were running things."

Funny. My take is that if those northern folk were still fighting the forever war, no one north or south or in between would have any holdings.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Edam
Midnight
Kugutsumen

They are no more. Not even an archive.
Midnight
But do you remember it?

Kugutsumen was the perfect example of what sandbox politics turns into, and since devs had no control of the site, it showed sandbox politics in all its unedited glory.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
 
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