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Whither Forever War?

Bringslite
You know what guys? Even before today's Fireside Chat, there has been a lot of political movement/adjustment around the server. Is there even any reason to drone on further? The Dev team is much smaller now so there will not be many fast fixes to the problems with the PVP/Feud mechanics.

No, you can't fight off a determined aggressor by defeating him many times so that you "win". That kinda sucks, but….

Guess what? You can't lose your settlement either. You can't lose. No one can really win or lose in terms of the "Big Picture". I feel like that is actually a good place to be until all of the systems are in and working right. I just hadn't thought of it that way until now.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Edam
MidknightDiamond
Simple as this, the game is HEADED in the direction they always said they wanted it to go, it's not there yet and hopefully it will get there, but the simple point is, there was ALWAYS meant to be conflict, and a lot of it, in this game.
.

They also said people wanting to just login and randomly PvP for no purpose just for the lols would be discouraged BUT the current mechanics allow you to feud a company with no holdings purely so you can just login and randomly PvP for no purpose.

The goal posts have changed. Maybe for the good. Maybe it needs to be that way to be financially viable. Maybe the new purchaser may make it even more that way removing all carebear activities from the game, who knows. However revisionist claims that the game was always meant to be a PvP-fest with no limits are not correct and not productive.

Not that it MATTERS, if the game goals are different they are different and people need to work with the current game not whine about what it was "meant to be" 3 years ago.

Forget what the game was "meant" to be and play the game we have now. Otherwise people risk turning into Andius.
MidknightDiamond
Bringslite
You know what guys? Even before today's Fireside Chat, there has been a lot of political movement/adjustment around the server. Is there even any reason to drone on further? The Dev team is much smaller now so there will not be many fast fixes to the problems with the PVP/Feud mechanics.

No, you can't fight off a determined aggressor by defeating him many times so that you "win". That kinda sucks, but….

Guess what? You can't lose your settlement either. You can't lose. No one can really win or lose in terms of the "Big Picture". I feel like that is actually a good place to be until all of the systems are in and working right. I just hadn't thought of it that way until now.

This is pretty much how I feel. I know the lull in major activity will suck… BUT the bright side of it is that we can grind through getting our settlements setup just as we like and want for EE11 and then hopefully by then, GW will be back on track. There's still building recipes needed, which I am not looking forward to the grind of, but it's at least something.

I don't think anyone's happy right now about the way things are - between bugs and lack of features, but having some time to do the settlements isn't a "horrible" thing, it's just a boring thing, yet still worthwhile so long as the game makes it, they find new investors, etc.

It's a gamble on playtime - do you do the grind to keep building even if it might blow up, or just bow out now and say 'screw it'? That's the ultimate question people have to ask themselves.

I'll admit I'm tired, but I've worked my ass off to help design a settlement, to get the recipes we have, the materials we have, the skills we have built up. I want to see it - if nothing else before everything goes to hell I want to see it.

Because we built it, we accomplished that. And in the end, no matter what, I think that's pretty freaking cool.
Aurora Silverstar, Pathfinder University Quartermaster & Explorer
Kiernan Silverstar, Aurora's lazy & good-for-nothing younger brother who just likes to blow things up.

PM MidknightDiamond on Paizo Forum
Midnight
Edam
They also said people wanting to just login and randomly PvP for no purpose just for the lols would be discouraged BUT the current mechanics allow you to feud a company with no holdings purely so you can just login and randomly PvP for no purpose.

Feuds aren't "just login and randomly PvP".

First you have to grind for influence,
second you have to pick specific companies,
third your intended victim has to choose not to (very easily) shed their company.

The people that are declaring feuds are focusing on companies that are inimical to them.

The only lol feud was the feud declared against the Dev company, and even that had no actual PvP that I am aware of.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
MidknightDiamond
Midnight
Edam
They also said people wanting to just login and randomly PvP for no purpose just for the lols would be discouraged BUT the current mechanics allow you to feud a company with no holdings purely so you can just login and randomly PvP for no purpose.

Feuds aren't "just login and randomly PvP".

First you have to grind for influence,
second you have to pick specific companies,
third your intended victim has to choose not to (very easily) shed their company.

The people that are declaring feuds are focusing on companies that are inimical to them.

The only lol feud was the feud declared against the Dev company, and even that had no actual PvP that I am aware of.

It did serve the purpose of finding the influence-stealing bug, if nothing else.
Aurora Silverstar, Pathfinder University Quartermaster & Explorer
Kiernan Silverstar, Aurora's lazy & good-for-nothing younger brother who just likes to blow things up.

PM MidknightDiamond on Paizo Forum
MidknightDiamond
Edam
MidknightDiamond
Simple as this, the game is HEADED in the direction they always said they wanted it to go, it's not there yet and hopefully it will get there, but the simple point is, there was ALWAYS meant to be conflict, and a lot of it, in this game.
.

They also said people wanting to just login and randomly PvP for no purpose just for the lols would be discouraged BUT the current mechanics allow you to feud a company with no holdings purely so you can just login and randomly PvP for no purpose.

The goal posts have changed. Maybe for the good. Maybe it needs to be that way to be financially viable. Maybe the new purchaser may make it even more that way removing all carebear activities from the game, who knows. However revisionist claims that the game was always meant to be a PvP-fest with no limits are not correct and not productive.

Not that it MATTERS, if the game goals are different they are different and people need to work with the current game not whine about what it was "meant to be" 3 years ago.

Forget what the game was "meant" to be and play the game we have now. Otherwise people risk turning into Andius.
I didn't say any of that. I said there was supposed to be a lot of pvp, not pvp without consequence. There's always been the bandit system in mind, the rep system, factions, flags, etc.

While these systems aren't implemented or may need major overhauls, they've still been in mind. And the "pvp for the lulz" has been discouraged and is pretty damned rare. Feuds and conflicts are not meaningless. Fighting over land, gathering spots, escalations kills, diplomatic and political insults are not meaningless.

People are not declaring random feuds for no reason - they have very specific reasons that they feel are justified. Do others disagree, sure… but that doesn't make it just for the hell of it.

If people were declaring feuds just for the fun of it then groups that couldn't defend themselves easily would have long ago been burnt.

Cause and effect. Simple as that.
Aurora Silverstar, Pathfinder University Quartermaster & Explorer
Kiernan Silverstar, Aurora's lazy & good-for-nothing younger brother who just likes to blow things up.

PM MidknightDiamond on Paizo Forum
Beinion
Bringslite
You know what guys? Even before today's Fireside Chat, there has been a lot of political movement/adjustment around the server. Is there even any reason to drone on further? The Dev team is much smaller now so there will not be many fast fixes to the problems with the PVP/Feud mechanics.

No, you can't fight off a determined aggressor by defeating him many times so that you "win". That kinda sucks, but….

Guess what? You can't lose your settlement either. You can't lose. No one can really win or lose in terms of the "Big Picture". I feel like that is actually a good place to be until all of the systems are in and working right. I just hadn't thought of it that way until now.
Your right no one can "win" and no one can lose but people are quitting the game and goblinworks is losing money and if they keep losing sub's we may never have a game so is that the "meeninful" choice you want to make … it may actually be the first meeningful choice you have had to make !
Midnight
Seriously, you have to WORK at getting feuded.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Beinion
Midnight
Seriously, you have to WORK at getting feuded.

That may be true and I'm not saying anything about that I'm not going to get into why this has all happened (as most of you know I was not really around for most of it other then a fly on the wall in the forums) but PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THE GAME BECAUSE OF EOX ACTIONS (may or may not have something to do with other people) but you are the one holding the knife and directly responceabilitys for ppl leaving the game
What do you gain from this other then making people leave the game NOTHING
So either your intention is to drive people from the game or you just like being griefers (I'm not just talking about pharos there is at least one other settlement that died and changed hands mostly because of EoX and another that lost a lot of players and almost walked away too if we lose more players they can't keep the doors open or the server up ….
When everyone is bitching we need more players we drive them away…. yea ok they may not stay in the long run depending on how the game turns out I may not stay depending on how the game turns out … I was enjoying the game until I was forced to pvp every night for my entire game time and now because of EoX I have not logged in for over two weeks and I know I an not alone ….
but right now we NEED every player that is willing to sub
I get that EoX NEEDS to pvp to keep there players but this is an unfinished game and if you force pvp on the same ppl night in and night out for a non pvp based settlement you will continue to lose players
MidknightDiamond
Beinion
Midnight
Seriously, you have to WORK at getting feuded.

That may be true and I'm not saying anything about that I'm not going to get into why this has all happened (as most of you know I was not really around for most of it other then a fly on the wall in the forums) but PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THE GAME BECAUSE OF EOX ACTIONS (may or may not have something to do with other people) but you are the one holding the knife and directly responceabilitys for ppl leaving the game
What do you gain from this other then making people leave the game NOTHING
So either your intention is to drive people from the game or you just like being griefers (I'm not just talking about pharos there is at least one other settlement that died and changed hands mostly because of EoX and another that lost a lot of players and almost walked away too if we lose more players they can't keep the doors open or the server up ….
When everyone is bitching we need more players we drive them away…. yea ok they may not stay in the long run depending on how the game turns out I may not stay depending on how the game turns out … I was enjoying the game until I was forced to pvp every night for my entire game time
but right now we NEED every player that is willing to sub
I get that EoX NEEDS to pvp to keep there players but this is an unfinished game and if you force pvp on the same ppl night in and night out for a non pvp based settlement you will continue to lose players

Cause and effect - they were pvp'd every night because of politics. As has been said over and over and over and over and over (I could go on… a lot, seriously), they didn't need to leave the game, they should've either left the settlement that kept poking the hornet's nest, petitioned the leaders of said settlement to come to a diplomatic solution, or some other avenue.

More people have been driven away from this game by the LACK of good pvp rather than too much of it. I don't give a damn if you don't like that fact, but it's true. Because this game is NOT a themepark and the pve is NOT the focus, then you need player conflict to create entertainment and that conflict is in various forms of PVP.
Aurora Silverstar, Pathfinder University Quartermaster & Explorer
Kiernan Silverstar, Aurora's lazy & good-for-nothing younger brother who just likes to blow things up.

PM MidknightDiamond on Paizo Forum
 
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