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Minimum Viable Product

Kitsune
(removed)
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Oooooh! Faction Chat.

It would let them add alliances in the form of a player faction with no mechanical benefit other than a shared flag and communication. Maybe the ability to feud a faction for PvP (or simply declare your faction permanently opposed to theirs), but not have it anything to do with holding control?

(Edit: that made more sense before Kitsune removed his post and turned it into a stand-alone post, but I still like the idea.)
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Bringslite
Whatever gets done, there have to be exceptions at least in the area of transporting goods for sale or trade. Those activities must always have risk tied to them, IMO. That will be broken with safe "shield hexes" and possibly safe "settlement law" hexes.

It looks like what is being asked for here is: We want some "safe zones" and we want some "unsafe zones", BUT we also want some factions and feuds so there are no safe zones. Oh, and for a topping, we want further complications by having weird "not so much corner cases" where I'm in a safe zone and you are feuding the guy next to me (or even partied with me) and you hit me with your AOE… and stuff starts to get REALLY complicated…..
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Caldeathe Baequiannia
At the moment, "Safe" only means rep free, or (in some of the proposed changes) the danger of guards. None of those shield hexes touch any settlement, so at the very least, every shipment has to pass through one "unsafe" hex unless the settlement is paying for guards.

So long as the guards are never perfect there will be a risk. In particular, if the guards are weaker the further they are from the three "cities" the shield hexes in the wilds will be only a little safer (I'd suggest that by five or six hexes out they should only be small groups of yellow guards). That might make them safe enough for newbies out on a gather, but will be only another factor in the bandit's decision when there is a known merchant or fat mules traveling the roads.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Bringslite
Not knocking anyone's ideas here. I am wondering how complicated we have to make this, though.

"Safe" to me means disabled PVP or complicated definitely "not reputation free PVP". Unsafe means enabled free PVP for all. Do I have that wrong?

On the one hand, with Safe that is actually just penalty PVP, you change very little. That will not jive with or satisfy the PVP averse. It won't stop determined PVPers (if that is the goal). If it is Safe except for factions and feuds, I can just travel with a non faction or feuded party member. What happens then?

If Safe simply means there are NPC guards, well it is demonstrated all the time that guards are not much deterrent inside settlements.

My language: Safe = disabled PVP. Unsafe = wide open PVP.

We can be as creative as we like and all have different ideas. We are not all speaking the same language when things are not defined, however. Nothing new around here or most anywhere else! smile
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Kitsune
Caldeathe Baequiannia
(Edit: that made more sense before Kitsune removed his post and turned it into a stand-alone post, but I still like the idea.)

Yeah, sorry about that reverse-ninja move there. I figured the subject was a bit off-topic, and probably deserved its own thread, being a completely independent subject and all. But thanks for the response! smile
Maxen
To be clear, the only hexes that I would suggest be PvP free are Thornkeep (and eventually Ft. Inevitable) and the surrounding tutorial hexes to give new players the opportunity to get their feet wet. Perhaps even cap training at Thornkeep and Ft. Inevitable to level 5 so there is little incentive to stay in those areas. Just enough to allow a new player to become competitive in Tier 1 gear. By then, they should be aware enough of which settlements/companies/factions they want to join.

To address the earlier suggestion that players would use the 'safe' hexes to their advantage, I have always been a proponent of timers. If you are moving into an area designated as non-PvP, you should be clearly notified on screen with a countdown. In the case of a bait/chase scenario, both players would be notified that they are about to change zones. However, once flagged for non-PvP, a player needs to do something more meaningful that simply being able to step back over the hex boundary. There should be a cool down or location they must visit for a period of time to have that flag removed.
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Fanndis Goldbraid
I get the original sales pitch Ryan had in the earliest threads on the old Paizo forums. The problem with the PvP roots is they alienated the largest majority of the TT Pathfinder players who might have been interested in a Pathfinder: Online. Making it an open PvP world ran off (my guess) 75-80% of the potential adopters of the PFO game itself. That 75-80% of those Kickstarter backers (close to 10,000 total) backed the Kickstarted for modules, minis and extra stuff to use in their tabletop game and never had any interest in PFO due to its proposed PvP rule set.

You can try to keep PvP as it is, but if you do you will never get any crossover players from the tabletop. There are too many open PvP games now for the limited number of open PvP gamers. Otherwise Darkfall, EVE Online, Mortal Online and a few others would be swollen with players, and none of them are. This is just my opinion, but if GW (what's left of it) wants more players, then open PvP has to change, and drastically.

When I read this in my head I convert it to McDonalds. McDonalds sells hamburgers, it advertises it sells handgurgers. Some people who have never tried hamburgers or don't like hamburgers, went to McDonalds becuase mcDonalds was giving away coupons to have a free pizza dinner. After they got their coupons, some stayed in the hopes that McDonalds might start selling pizza, but they never really did. So now those people say, you see this is why McDonalds is not getting people who want to eat pizza as customers. There are so many places that sell burgers, and they are not doing well, yep not McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's or Roy Rogers. If McDonalds wants more customers it should stop selling hamburgers and start selling pizza.

Let's be honest here, this is a silly argument. PFO did not attract large numbers of subs for one reason, and one reason only…. The quality of the product. Even compared to other alphas, the quality was just not there. The TT were not going to go to any MMO in large numbers, and many who did try the game said that this was their first MMO. You mean to tell me, some how, they missed role playing heavens like Lord of the Rings Only, that had virtually no PvP and nothing but an immersive sandbox with stellar social game play???

A majority of TT players are TT players. A majority of MMO players are MMO players. You don't build an MMO to attract TT, at the risk of not attracting MMO players. That is simply stupid.

If anyone is going to invest in PFO or publish it outright, they will develop it to attract MMO players. The TT players had their chance to direct this gane more to their liking, but they didn't show up on day one or day 280. Tt'ers will not save this game, it will be MMO players, or the game will die. Goblin Works / Paizo can not sink the money it would take to turn this into a mediocre PvE sandbox. But with some changes they might attract more pvpers.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
harneloot
I am a long time TT player and PFO is my first MMO. If it had been called/marketed as something that did not invoke the name and ideas of the TT game I play, then I never would have pledged the KS or given the game even a moments thought. I believe I am not the only person playing PFO that fist into this category.

I was sold a pizza and now am being fed hamburgers you say? I'd settle for a pizza-burger happily! (and, as a matter of fact, the burgers are pretty tasty, as long as you are not force fed them every night).
Xyzzy - gatherer, yeoman archer, swamp monster.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
When I read this in my head I convert it to McDonalds. McDonalds sells hamburgers, it advertises it sells handgurgers. Some people who have never tried hamburgers or don't like hamburgers, went to McDonalds becuase mcDonalds was giving away coupons to have a free pizza dinner.
Except it's nothing like that, Bludd, because GW hasn't been around and selling mmos. If anything, EVE is McDonald's, and a new chain has come along that said "We think we think we can make a restaurant that sells to both burger and pizza fans."

They may or may not be right, but in the interim, there have been a small group of fans of both saying "we'll burn your restaurant down before we let you sell both in one place because it's stupid and you can't have a restaurant unless you use one of the pre-approved designs we've been eating at for the last 30 years."
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
 
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