Cookies Disclaimer

I agree Our site saves small pieces of text information (cookies) on your device in order to authenticate logins, deliver better content and provide statistical analysis. You can adjust your browser settings to prevent our site from using cookies, but doing so will prevent some aspects of the site from functioning properly.

Requirements for MVP

Duffy Swiftshadow
Tyncale
Completely agreeing with Bludd here. Explaining the fact that it may be hard to implement water is irrelevant imo. The psychology involved with hooking players into a game, and getting better retention does not answer to (technical) explanations of why it is hard to implement this or that fun little system.

Apparently, even Early Adapters(Enrollers) are picky in what they choose.

It's completely relevant, this game is clearly a work in progress and scheduling a project like this is really difficult. Some people are telling them to spend months on polish and not produce any playable systems or content while their is a drought of content and players. Even looking back would that have been better for the game? Couldn't that be seen as trying to dupe people into playing a polished 'game' with no content? Would delaying the start of EE six months to polish the hell out of almost nothing had won them anything? Or would that have hurt their chances of drawing some investor attention with a pretty but systemless tech demo? Lot of unknowns there.

Anyone talking about what they 'should' have done is making useless statements, make a note for later analysis and move on already. The situation is currently what it is, focus on building on that with what they have available now while maintaining their vision of the game. Not what could have or might have been.

Besides odds are good even if they had the power of foresight back then something else would have been 'the problem' instead.

Sorry for the ranting, most of these discussions are not the least bit constructive, their just insults trying to hide behind vague shroud of 'criticism' and I find it infuriating. We just fired a guy for shit like that at our company, very frustrating person to have to deal with.
Tyncale
I think they could have prioritized things better; however this would have been less of a problem if they had had a higher pace of development for features, polish and bugsmashing. I did not expect there to be a friendslist in Januari: I sure as hell did expect one by August after 8 months of requests for this. Same for water in the rivers, and being able to scroll in a UI, and stuff like tabs working.

What they delivered in 3 years, with 20 devs and 4+ million, is a build that is barely pre-alpha. And then they ran out of money. That's some bad business.

And btw, I am getting kinda sick of our current criticism being labeled as "hindsight". There have been alarmbells ringing for a lot longer by many players. Even then lots of those people kept suggesting stuff, make crowdforge threads, offer solutions (even if those solutions were not always feasible).
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Duffy Swiftshadow
Of course it would have been better if they had a higher pace of development and lots of money to hire people to do it, but they didn't. You work with what you got and you do what you gotta do to make progress. Sometimes hard choices need to be made, maybe you fail, maybe you only stumble a bit, but maybe you succeed.

Feasibility is king, you can point stuff out all ya want, but if none of it is possible given whatever circumstances what are they supposed to do? I'm all for feedback, suggestions, and debating details, but these 'problems' are the reality of how software is made. It's not like building with some Legos while you follow a manual. They aren't gonna slap their heads and say 'oh yea duh we could just do all that real quick thanks for reminding us'.

Pre-alpha? The first EE release was not even close to pre-alpha much less what we have now, that statement is a complete fabrication. What is the point of that statement? What is your goal with it? Lash out at the devs for their problems? Ridicule and insult them into suddenly doing all these things they've apparently just been 'slacking' on out of nowhere?
Tyncale
I am not lashing out. You think I am lashing out? I am just observing what I see, and telling them what made this particular player quit playing (and believing) in the end. Should be useful to them, especially if everyone did that. Instead, most just came and went quietly, without feedback.

Also, a pre-alpha would be a game without water in the rivers to me. That just screams "Hey guys, we just started this…..".
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Baron Malthius
Honestly, the two biggest things that were not in this "MVP" were the basic UI stuff (tabbing through windows, being able to log in and out, etc.) and most of all better social and chat tools for player interactions. I have elaborated on those points before and those are huge for new players far more than even the prettiest graphics. Even if they had the graphics of Star Citizen, without all this basic UI, social tools, and other key features this is not a genuine MVP. Dazzling people with shiny graphics and stuff only delays the inevitable.

Speaking of Star Citizen, there was one other huge blunder made by GW in how they advertised this "MVP" which I haven't seen any other up and coming MMO do, in particular Crowfall and Star Citizen. They both advertised what the actual state of their game was (pre-alpha and alpha respectively). The games were certainly playable but they didn't hide behind this "MVP" trick that Dancey kept going on about. In the other two games, there hasn't been the same kind of playing with words and making the game seem in a more advanced state than it actually was.

This was one of several PR and marketing blunders which could have easily been avoided.
Quijenoth Starkiller
We all know the MVP was not met for EE release and many feel that what the projected MVP set out may have not been enough. The undeniable fact however is that they had to launch the game to bring in the revenue to finish it. This I believe is where we where miss-sold this game.

The feeling for me is that the $1m kickstarter was hugely under priced. This game needed at least $3m but as I've said before, this game probably couldn't have generated that kind of funding.

Instead they took a gamble and speculated on those passionate about the game and pathfinder to back it through the last $2m. It didn't work and now we are waiting on a backer to fund it.
Quijenoth Starkiller Viceroy of Callambea
Company Leader of Beyond the Grave - www.beyond-pfo.com
Crafting Planner
Bringslite
I have to agree that going backwards and continuing to point out where we think things went wrong is pretty much useless at this point. The same people that made operational decisions are probably not the people working on the game right now.

Maybe much more good could be done with us suggesting realistic courses of action moving forward. It is a pity that WE can't even agree on those things.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Baron Malthius
Bringslite
I have to agree that going backwards and continuing to point out where we think things went wrong is pretty much useless at this point. The same people that made operational decisions are probably not the people working on the game right now.

Maybe much more good could be done with us suggesting realistic courses of action moving forward. It is a pity that WE can't even agree on those things.

What courses of action do we have left? Not sure if there are any right now.

The only thing we can do is discuss and continue to pass to GW/Paizo our thoughts on what we would like to see in the game now, which is already being done.

The only thing we can do now is wait and see, at least that's as far as I can tell anyway, maybe I am wrong.
Baron Malthius
After going through this again I felt that the tone of my previous post was far harsher and negative than I intended it to be. For that I apologize.

I have adjusted my previous post accordingly.
Bringslite
Baron Malthius
After going through this again I felt that the tone of my previous post was far harsher and negative than I intended it to be. For that I apologize.

I have adjusted my previous post accordingly.

You are certainly not alone in writing things that can be taken as harsh. smile

I agree that most of what we are discussing is about the future. I also acknowledge that some of what I have been writing is stuck on dwelling in the past. I will also try to channel my points in a more forward looking way. smile
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
 
You must be logged into an enrolled account to post