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No-intereact/One-Click WIN

Quijenoth
I have been dwelling over this problem for along time now and I just cant come up with a viable workaround on my own, so in the tradition that is crowdforging I'll put my proposal to the floor.

DISCLAIMER - This proposal is by no means a quick fix, It will likely involve some radical changes in the game and probably will never see the light of day but right now it needs to be at least discussed.

The scenario: Pathfinder online is looking to create a persistent world based on a time consuming element. XP is earned per day, gear is produced over time, land claims (holdings) and bulk is generated over time, Feuds are warfare are executed over time.

The Problem: right now the game has two types of mechanics feeding this. Non-interactive fixed duration events and one-click instants. by feeding this game with instants and off-line/afk events the core element of what is a massively multiplayer game is resolved with minimal (if any) interaction with others in the world.

The non-interactive fixed duration events is summed up mostly in the crafting system. you put the ingredients in the pot and click combine. wait X hours and you have the result. You don't have to be present during the entire process. Another example is the capturing of towers in war of towers, while you have to be present you dont actually have to do anything unless defenders turn up. One exception - The holding guards have prevented some of the non-interactive element of the capture mechanic but once they are dead its back to non-interaction.

The one-click instants is gathering. the core resource for obtaining the resources for crafting is obtainable in 1 simple click making it difficult to interact with anyone doing it. This is also becoming very prevalent in the recent T3 resource thread where with such a small resource and such a small player base actually finding someone to interact with on this level is near on impossible.

The Solution: Both problems need to be replaced with some form of interactive duration event. now this might be mini-games, action timers, or something else, I'm not quite sure what and this is the point of this thread. Lets have your ideas what would make these aspects of the game more interactive and more fun! thus giving people a reason to log in and actually interact!

Caldeathe Baequiannia
Would it help if crafting times were dramatically reduced, but your queue only ran while you are logged in? It could be further enhanced by allowing death to interrupt the queue, which must then be manually restarted by accessing one of the appropriate facilities and clicking "restart queue"' thus allowing enemy combatants an opportunity to interrupt your production line (at risk, once the guards are better at doing their jobs)
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Baron Malthius
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Would it help if crafting times were dramatically reduced, but your queue only ran while you are logged in? It could be further enhanced by allowing death to interrupt the queue, which must then be manually restarted by accessing one of the appropriate facilities and clicking "restart queue"' thus allowing enemy combatants an opportunity to interrupt your production line (at risk, once the guards are better at doing their jobs)

That's actually a pretty good idea, depending on the amount of reduction. You don't want to reduce it too much otherwise crafting becomes trivial.

I once heard an argument earlier that the whole point of long queue times was to simulate your character actively devoting attention to it, but it really feels like you just drop off mats to the local smithy and just wait for them to finish it.

There are two caveats though:

1) Not sure how you'd tie death into that, but maybe there is some way to make it work.

2) More importantly, what else are crafters gonna do in the meantime? They need more things to do as well. Without that the most likely result is crafters standing around hiding in towns with nothing to do. They won't venture forth and do anything else if they don't feel it is worth it cause why would they? If they could lose their crafting queue status just by dying, why go risk getting ganked or even trying to fight some mobs? There needs to be some reason to stay logged in besides being forced to do so, and there has to be reasons for crafters to want to come out and do more things.

So it needs more, but not a bad start.
Takasi
First, I like the current crafting system as it is. With the limited development resources in the game there are so many other things that should take a higher priority. Character creation (first thing people see), roleplay animations, friends lists, proper buy order system, PvE AI, etc.

If they're going to add something to the game for crafting it should be something new, not a destruction of the current design.

Add player housing with interiors to craft and decorate. There are 40 plots or so per settlement in the new layouts. Make new recipes for tables, rugs, fireplaces, beds, etc.

Add the enchantment system. Sacrifice +s on gear for new keywords and abilities.

Add interaction bonuses. Add a bonus to the chance for crits on + refined goods for every x minutes you stand at a station. Add a chance for a recipe to drop if you stay at a station while a good is being finished.

Add combined crafting. Allow multiple people to pitch in to reduce the time required to craft something, provided they both sit at the station together for an allotted period of time.
Takasi
I also want to stress the importance of criticals if an enchantment system is added to the game. You cannot learn a +4 or +5 recipe, and with the lack of tier 3 recipes and resources criticals are going to become more valuable in crafting.

It would be nice to see more feedback on how the chance for crits is undergoing its calculation. If it's only one roll then maybe that's a problem. Make it multiple rolls, and have them occur during intervals spread out throughout the crafting queue. Make the calculation vary based on the crafters existing skill during the calculation. For example, if you switch armors or role features it might increase or decrease your chance at the next interval. Make this an active check, so that a player has to go back to the station and reapply their higher bonus to continue the interval check. This system would allow for new maneuvers to be added to the game that buff crafting skills. Make these maneuvers cost a great deal of power, so the best chance of getting a crit would be to buff a skill with a maneuver, go to the crafting station to apply the higher skill, go back to the tavern to recharge power, and continue the process for the most effective results.
Baron Malthius
Takasi
Add player housing with interiors to craft and decorate. There are 40 plots or so per settlement in the new layouts. Make new recipes for tables, rugs, fireplaces, beds, etc.

I would be against this. I think these sorts of things, if they are to be in the game, should be done at the company or settlement level. Having people coming together to make an awesome looking settlement or company outpost/base of operations really would do wonders for the social aspect of the game. Making individual homes would run counter to that.

Those things would also go a long way to making said settlements and bases unique and give a sense of identity. So I like the idea of new recipes for all these aesthetic items. In fact they should be in the game, but again, at the settlement and company levels rather than individual.

Add the enchantment system. Sacrifice +s on gear for new keywords and abilities.

How would this work though? I think the idea is interesting but how much leeway should be given and new keywords added? Too much leeway would basically break the whole keyword system. A custom weapon designed for a specific player or build could be interesting and add variety to the market. Also, what feats would you have the new item keywords match up with?

Add interaction bonuses. Add a bonus to the chance for crits on + refined goods for every x minutes you stand at a station. Add a chance for a recipe to drop if you stay at a station while a good is being finished.

I would say add a few more crafting items to serve this role instead of having players stand around. Do something like making master craftsmen tools or something for each crafting profession. These various tools can be added as an optional ingredient to other items made with that particular profession. It provides again, an active way for crafters to improve their items in the queue, or increase the speed, crit chance, and so on. It shouldn't be too easy to get the materials, but it shouldn't take long to craft them once gathered.

I can't think of many people who will want to stand around the whole time it takes to make one suit of T2 armor.

Add combined crafting. Allow multiple people to pitch in to reduce the time required to craft something, provided they both sit at the station together for an allotted period of time.

Again, I don't like it cause it again keeps people standing around not doing anything. If they want to contribute, have some of them either make tools as well or do something that requires active interaction. Otherwise we will have the same scenario of having crafters being forced to stand around logged in, doing nothing besides waiting for the next suit of T2 armor to complete. That simply does not sound like an enjoyable crafting system to me.
Yrme
1. Gushers.

If it is too hard to implement gushers according to the original design, give gathering bonuses when multiple members of a party are gathering in the same hex: 1 gatherer = 50% of current gathering production. Each additional party member in the same hex = +20% gathering production. (Can people place AFK alts in hex to boost production? Yes, but moving 3-5 alts is a pain, and those afk alts are more likely to be discovered and helpless to a bandit.)

2. Limit gathering based on proximity to home territory.

Make it so top quality resources can be gathered anywhere on the map; second quality resources can only be gathered within ~6 hexes of your company's outposts; third quality resources can only be gathered within ~4 hexes of your outposts; and fourth quality resources can only be gathered within ~2 hexes of your outposts.

This could possibly increase regional specialization and intraregion trade, while rewarding placement of holdings and outposts.* (I think part of the gathering issues stem from low population and relative ease of any of us going anywhere on the map. Limiting us to our home territory makes us accountable to our neighbors.)

* I think holdings should only be placeable if they have a contiguous path through same-settlement holdings to the owning settlement.
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
(Some thoughts. A mix of short term and/or directly related to the OP, some long term and/or not directly related, but crafting enhancement in general)

An "active" bonus? While the crafter is at a station supervising a queue, the queue runs at a higher speed than when they are logged out or doing something else.

An "advance queue" or "supervise queue" button that is only available once per hour (or half hour, or 15 minutes) on the active item, that takes an appropriate amount of time off the timer for that item.

Advanced recipes? Using extra (different?) materials or a cash input (fixed into the recipe) to speed up the end result.

Co-operative/supervisory recipes. A user that has the "supervisor" recipe for an item can offer their own item to another user or multiple users what also have the base recipe so that the job can be distributed across compatible queues. Each member would need to "accept/reject" the combined job before it enters their queue. If the other user doesn't know the recipe, they can't accept the job. (Possibly each additional user must add a percentage of the original matts to accept the job.

Pre-queuing. Let the crafter set-up a job that is missing matts. When the materials are available, a "queue" button is active in the crafting window. This could be tied to the supervisor above, by letting the "lead" crafter share the job, and other people add materials to it from their own stocks.

Let non-crafters add materials to open (pre-queued) jobs within their company.

Tying above pre-queued auction to crafting in AH settlements only allowing mixed material and cash bids on the un-finished product (original maker sees: "Caldeathe offers 100 coal, 100 lodestone, and 280 copper for this job [accept/queue] or [reject]" (This one is probably too complex, since the AH fee would have to be fixed into the mechanic in some way)

Attach notes field to an item so that it can be queued with "for Felsen" and have that appear on the item in the bank until cleared. (again, probably impractical, lots of extra work, as items would need to be stored separately in the bank until their note is cleared)
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Takasi
Baron Malthius
Having people coming together to make an awesome looking settlement or company outpost/base of operations really would do wonders for the social aspect of the game. Making individual homes would run counter to that.

In addition to the Large, Medium, Small and Infrastructure plots there are already 40 individual plots presented in the upcoming settlement layouts. Individual homes are coming.

Players have smallholdings today but only if they buy them at the cash shop. Being able to invite people inside of a crafted, decorated home is great added social improvement. Players in other MMOs spend time just logging into their homes to view, redecorate, host others, etc.

Baron Malthius
How would this work though? I think the idea is interesting but how much leeway should be given and new keywords added? Too much leeway would basically break the whole keyword system. A custom weapon designed for a specific player or build could be interesting and add variety to the market. Also, what feats would you have the new item keywords match up with?

They presented the UI for enchantments at Paizocon. There is already a system planned. Whatever it is, the point is that it would add more options for crafting and setup an importance to criticals. Additional gameplay could be added to making criticals happen.

Baron Malthius
Again, I don't like it cause it again keeps people standing around not doing anything. If they want to contribute, have some of them either make tools as well or do something that requires active interaction. Otherwise we will have the same scenario of having crafters being forced to stand around logged in, doing nothing besides waiting for the next suit of T2 armor to complete. That simply does not sound like an enjoyable crafting system to me.

Crafting tools are interesting, but I think they should function like maneuvers and use the existing power system to cast during creation.

We have lots of players standing around the Vault, frequently. It's a social function of the game that would carry over into the crafting section. Choosing to stay at the station would add rewards (combined crafting, added criticals, new recipes) but would not be required. It's a trade off, an optional additional edge which will become important when the 200 crafting station rating changes as we transition to + buildings. If this interaction element could take place without going directly into the crafting screen then crafters would gather together and socialize. Adding maneuvers that consume power would add trips to the tavern, resulting in a feedback loop where a busy crafting town would see players moving around hoping to maximize their skill.

Or they could choose to opt out entirely, log in for a few minutes and click a button. Or go out and seek adventure outside of town. It's a trade off, and would help distinguish the more "dedicated" players who choose to craft with their playtime.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Yrme
1. Gushers.

If it is too hard to implement gushers according to the original design, give gathering bonuses when multiple members of a party are gathering in the same hex: 1 gatherer = 50% of current gathering production. Each additional party member in the same hex = +20% gathering production. (Can people place AFK alts in hex to boost production? Yes, but moving 3-5 alts is a pain, and those afk alts are more likely to be discovered and helpless to a bandit.)

2. Limit gathering based on proximity to home territory.

Make it so top quality resources can be gathered anywhere on the map; second quality resources can only be gathered within ~6 hexes of your company's outposts; third quality resources can only be gathered within ~4 hexes of your outposts; and fourth quality resources can only be gathered within ~2 hexes of your outposts.

This could possibly increase regional specialization and intraregion trade, while rewarding placement of holdings and outposts.* (I think part of the gathering issues stem from low population and relative ease of any of us going anywhere on the map. Limiting us to our home territory makes us accountable to our neighbors.)

* I think holdings should only be placeable if they have a contiguous path through same-settlement holdings to the owning settlement.
1) Emphatically disagree. There is no good reason why large groups should get increased production above-and-beyond the fact that they already have more gatherers. If gushers can't be random, they should not exist at all.

2) Emphatically disagree. It again works to concentrate resources in the hands of the largest groups for doing less work and taking fewer risk. There is no good reason why a dedicated gatherer should be penalized for taking the risk of gathering far from home. If a company wants to make gathering illegal in their hexes, they will be able to in the finished game. Otherwise they can post guards and take a rep hit for driving foreign gatherers out of their territory.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
 
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