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Escalation Changes and Impact on Resources

Tyncale
I agree with everything Ravnelute said. I also think that things will get more interesting once monsters can roam. High level escalations that are unchecked should also spawn the occasional "Zonesweeper" i.e. a very dangerous mob that roams randomly and would most likely be insta-death for a single player. The more unchecked an escalation, the larger the roaming groups could be: bandits on Patrol, that sort of thing.

With roaming monsters and zonesweepers, you would not have to lower the quality of the resources, since an unchecked escalation makes it much more dangerous (or annoying in the case of a low level esc) to gather.
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
You are a Troll
Midnight
The south was practically vacant that weekend and probably is most of the time.

Please refrain from making erroneous conclusions on limited data.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
@Ravenlute, I don't think the proposed notion of escalations blocking T3 gathering is quite what you think. First off, I think it the suggestion is that it only block T3. Everything else would still be available. Secondly, we're just starting to get into T3 gathering, and there are already severe shortages of some materials. More gatherers reaching that level will just make it worse. When a hex gets stripped, it only recovers (on average, and depending on whether people are right about 3% vs. 1%) one unit every 10 to 20 hours or so. Forcing it to go fallow of T3 during escalations would give it a chance to recover a bit, and should actually increase the available resources in the long run.

I'm with you on the spread thing. Even though I don't like doing escalations, I think that stopping the spread has made the world too much easier. And they definitely shouldn't go away on their own. I used to be forced to help my team once or twice a week out of a sense of need. Now I don't feel guilty at all about not participating, even though it means I haven't picked up a T2 recipe in a month.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Ravenlute
Cal, I got the idea. It's why I suggested putting the T3 resources in loot tables as well. Strip mining hexes happens intentionally by players. Allowing them to gain a few more resources while an escalation is active won't change much. It will still be strip mined when available. The demand is much higher than the supply. The only real change that we'd see in-game is there would be pressure to keep those hexes completely clear of escalations as often as possible so the resources could be gathered. In turn, that won't leave much time for them to regenerate anyway (since the escalations won't last long).

It just feels like another restriction on players. I don't think you should be forced to clear an entire escalation to gather, regardless of Tier. Let the sneaky players dodge and weave through the mobs, avoiding player attention and grabbing what good bits they can find. If people want to fight over a certain hex's resources, cool, go for it. Get into PvP brawls or continue strip mining. For everyone else, the loot table option lets them have a chance at the T3 resources, just not specific ones like mining out a hex offers.
Myl - Herald of Stone Bear Clan (Tavernhold)
"You can walk into Tavernhold but a horse will have to carry you out."
Takasi
Adding more salvage is great, but nobody is stopping strip mining. Brighthaven last night said they killed less than two dozen people so far, and yet they also claim to strip mine their own hexes to prevent others from doing so.

Escalations go down, but not immediately. There would be some time to recover, and it would give a reward to people who are tending those hexes.

The real issue is that there is no realistic way, given the server population, to make gatherers dependent on adventurers. Someone can gather 24/7 no matter what the landscape is like. Banditry is sadly very easy to avoid. There should be some type of gameplay that encourages gatherers to rely on adventurers in the same way adventurers rely on gatherers for their gear. The logical approach to me is that monsters need to be cleared for gathering to take place.

It seems like an easier technical task to just turn gathering nodes off in hexes with escalations. There are plenty of T2 wilderness hexes that are escalation free so you can still gather the mats needed to equip adventurers, and T1 hexes never get infected so you can always harvest for settlement, holding and outpost kits.

Monster/lion hexes are the special exception and have the T3 rewards more and more people are trying to get. Just imagine the thrill of finally clearing a hex of an escalation and seeing a group of gatherers scurrying when the window opens. It's an element of gameplay that's missing today that feels simple and elegant to introduce.
Bringslite
If it can be easily done, turn PVP on in the monster/home hexes and resources off during escalations in any infected hex. Complicated fixes and tweaks for issues can be added to that when there are more bodies in game and coders to do the work behind the "fourth wall".
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Takasi
Yeah the idea of "claiming a monster hex" is solved by "do the work, clear it and it's yours". We don't need to shoehorn a hybrid feuding system into those hexes. And turning them off is blunt but an all or nothing approach is good enough considering how little work it takes to clean everything out. There's no need to drip scale incrementally how gathering would work because we're going to end up stripping everything within an hour after the nodes are available. If we want the resources to grow we hunt anyone trying to kill the escalation until it's ready. One more thing to do add though would be the new system Bob mentioned where the timer goes down rather than up (per the old mini escalation rules), but I think most groups after a day or two will beat an escalation if it means a large one swoop haul of T3.
Jokken
Ravenlute
Maybe I'm the odd one out here but I miss the expanding escalations we used to have and the persistence they gave to the world. The idea that a group of enemies left unchecked can expand and take over the map is fantastic.

The way this thread is going, and others like it, just chip away at that idea. You're turning these monstrous threats into little random spikes of activity that are to be casually dispatched like in any other game.

If it's difficult to get rid of a large group of enemies, that's okay. If there aren't enough people playing right now to make a dent in the tide of monsters, that's okay! The wilds of the River Kingdoms should be dangerous. Taming multiple hexes and keeping them in check should require consistent group effort. If you want the results you need to put in the work.

The idea that enemies looking to expand their territory would suddenly leave after having claimed it, undisputed for a week, is ridiculous. The dangers of the world should not get easier just because there are less people around or they have decided to do other things.

I don't believe that requiring a fallow period for gathering is a good way to go in terms of enjoying the game. If an escalation has full control of a hex then go ahead and reduce the quality of the resources available but don't block them out entirely.

To encourage fighting higher tier escalations and buffer the effects of strip mining, give the mobs in those escalations a greater chance of dropping T3 resources when killed. Even if a player group has a stranglehold on a particular hex this would allow others to get T3 resources through PvE and incentive to do so.

If you are looking to encourage more PvP then just flag the Monster/Home hexes as rep free zones and leave it at that. It won't really cause more PvP to happen but it would reinforce the idea of how dangerous those hexes are.

I do understand the idea of limiting gather time to fallow periods and how that might force people to run into each other and fight for those resources, but realistically it won't change anything unless those fallow times are limited to an hour or less a day. That would just be too much hassle for a Gatherer and there wouldn't be any sense of accomplishment to clearing an escalation if another just popped back in so shortly after being cleared. So I just have to disagree to that whole idea.

tldr: I disagree and think this discussion is going down the wrong path. Bring back massive spreading escalations. Let gatherers continue to gather without restriction. Reduce quality of resources in 100% escalation hexes. Add T3 resources to higher tier mob loot tables. Flag Monster/Home hexes as Rep free PvP zones.

+1 to all of this. Please do not further remove the teeth from escalations. Please do something to allow organizations to exert some form of authority over who is taking what from nearby resources.
Go West for freedom and adventure! Join the free soil settlers of High Road. Be a positive and constructive force for freedom in the Bulwark Hills. www.coalroad.com/hrc
Midnight
You are a Troll
Midnight
The south was practically vacant that weekend and probably is most of the time.

Please refrain from making erroneous conclusions on limited data.

I explained the parameters I was speaking of, but even before Lisa's layoffs announcement it wasn't easy to find people there. Since I have spent most of my 9 months gametime in the south, LOOKING FOR VICTIMS PLAYERS, I seriously don't think I suffer from limited data. The south has always had a majority of their hexes empty anytime you go through.

Are you going to say that most of the hexes have people in them most of the time? That would be an outright lie, and provably wrong by any neutral visitor.

I think practically vacant is an apt description, and I heartily invite any neutral parties to come down and see for themselves if they actually care about us bickering over which words best describe things.

If a neutral visitor goes to the south RIGHT NOW I would bet money they'll find people in less than 10% of the hexes. It is easily possible that neutral visitor will find 98% of the hexes empty of players. If they don't enter towns it might take them hours or even days before they bump into someone.

By the way, that's not a criticism of the south, my home is just as empty. The only reason my home has people around (when it has any) is usually because it is closer to Thornkeep and because U.C. is trapped behind us and has to cut through to get anywhere else on the map.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Ravenlute
Takasi
There's no need to drip scale incrementally how gathering would work because we're going to end up stripping everything within an hour after the nodes are available.

It sounds like we agree that hexes are going to be strip mined pretty much all the time when it's possible to do so. That being the case I don't see the need to hinder gathering. The resources just need to be made available in other ways.

Takasi
The real issue is that there is no realistic way, given the server population, to make gatherers dependent on adventurers. Someone can gather 24/7 no matter what the landscape is like. Banditry is sadly very easy to avoid. There should be some type of gameplay that encourages gatherers to rely on adventurers in the same way adventurers rely on gatherers for their gear. The logical approach to me is that monsters need to be cleared for gathering to take place.

Monster/lion hexes are the special exception and have the T3 rewards more and more people are trying to get. Just imagine the thrill of finally clearing a hex of an escalation and seeing a group of gatherers scurrying when the window opens. It's an element of gameplay that's missing today that feels simple and elegant to introduce.

If the issue is that Gatherers are outside the economic cycle that's certainly a different kind of problem. I believe the original intent is that Combat characters were supposed to provide protection to Gatherers. However, the world isn't dangerous enough to require that now, right? Do the Gatherers really need to have that link though? What does it accomplish? That they can't go gather Ore and Logs by themselves? As population picks up, it will fix itself.

It seems like your proposal would just place an unneeded restriction on them and make their role less enjoyable.

See, imagine that you are a Gatherer. The world is your oyster. You've trained hard and planned ahead and you are one of the top tier Gatherers in the game. You can go anywhere and collect the best resources. You are in competition with other Gatherers as you try to snag some Dragonhide before it's gone for the next few hours. Sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't, but it's all on your time.

Now they put in the idea that requires the escalation be defeated. You get to that hex and find it overrun by Duergar. You could rally a call to your friends and try to get them to clear out the hex for you but you've only got 2 hours left that you can stay logged in. No Dragonhide for you. You log in the next day and the escalation is still there but there aren't enough folks on that day to clear it. Again, nothing. The next day you get home from work and hop in to find out the Duergar were taken out and the hex has already been strip mined. It's fallow now so maybe you can check back throughout the night and get a piece, just like before the changes were put in place.

The point is, it takes away the freedom of the Gatherer to do their work on their own terms. No one else has to log in at specific times during the day. The Auction Houses make everything else available to all others. Refiners log in, buy resources, Refine stuff. Crafters log in, buy refined goods, Craft stuff. Combat characters log in, buy gear, kill stuff. None of them are forced to wait around or schedule specific times to do their job, at any tier.
Myl - Herald of Stone Bear Clan (Tavernhold)
"You can walk into Tavernhold but a horse will have to carry you out."
 
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