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Pricing

Bringslite
A "store" item that I would like to see would be an "Adopt a Hex" feature. This has been brought up before in various configurations.

Areas (hexes at base level) need diversity. They need Atmospheres. They need Moods. They could "reflect" the regimes that "claim" them. A lawful good administered area should have a "look" to it that says that. The same for a chaotic evil area and a bit different for a lawful evil one. Areas that are controlled by "tree huggers" could look tangled and wild or maybe more balanced and "park like" <— A harmonious natural look.

The store could have an "Adopt a Hex" section. Whatever the cost to work on a single hex and make a profit for GW, that is the target goal. Groups could work together crowdfunding the hexes that they want altered until that "fund" hits "goal reached!" status.

That could also be done with building skins and lots of other things.

It's a sandbox. Players will eat up opportunities to make their part of the box customized to their visions.

Edit: When I say "customized" what I mean is players would select a "look" or "theme" from a list and the artist would work with GW's tools and go with that. Not a freaking inch by inch customization. Not a terrain modifier.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Ravenlute
Takasi
One thing to consider is that the value of xp is not flat.

This game is the rare case where you are wrong. The value of xp has an exact price. Just because the amount of xp you need to spend between ranks increases, it does not change the value of the xp itself.

Takasi
Ravenlute with the pricing model you suggested, where is the incentive for anyone to go past Tier 2? The game clearly was not designed for this in mind.

At least with the current model even if someone stays in Tier 2 they have to pay $15 a month to keep their account active, not just accumulate xp.

XP really isn't the end all of gating either. You need mats and gear to be really effective, especially in PvP scenarios. There needs to be some cost associated with playing the game outside of xp accrual, or else you'll end up with a population that no longer pays Goblinworks anything.

It is the nature of gamers to strive for the greatest power available, to be the best. If someone reaches T2 they will likely want to gather all the T2 recipes, all the ranks in attack feats, etc. that they can but to do so they will need to climb the levels within T2. Once they have that rank 13 or whatever equivalent is the top end of T2 they will consider the gap to reach T3. They see it's not so bad going from rank 13 to 14 and on top of that they will have the prestige of being able to say they are T3. It continues to feed from there.

To many, any advantage is still an advantage, so even if the improvement from T2-T3 isn't as big as the one from T1-T2, they will still want to achieve it. What is the current incentive to climb the ranks of T3? It isn't the xp gain, you can spend that on other roles and abilities.

The idea that a F2P crowd would not pay Goblinworks anything is with the thought that XP is the only thing available for sale and that would be incorrect. While my suggestion involves moving the xp to an item shop format it is coupled with the idea that there would be other things available for purchase as well.
Myl - Herald of Stone Bear Clan (Tavernhold)
"You can walk into Tavernhold but a horse will have to carry you out."
Takasi
What about playtime? You're saying it's ok to let people play as much as they want without paying anything?

Telling someone they can play the game, acquire mats, join a guild, contribute, and do extremely well for $30 in xp vs being about 150% better for $200 in xp is just not going to fly with most gamers.

They took away the box price and lost a third of their monthly revenue. If people are willing to pay $30 to play the game but not $15 a month to continue playing, then why would that same audience spend $200 to get to Tier 3? XP expenses just aren't designed for that. They would have to completely redesign the xp system to make that work.

What will happen is new gamers will pay the $30 to get a decent tier 2 character, keep PFO in their library, log in occasionally to see how the game is doing and play when there are updates. I do not see Goblinworks increasing their revenue by giving even more gameplay away for free.
Ravenlute
Jokken
So you can have a pricing model that breaks all the service items in the game to individually priced items and people buy the game piecemeal as they want to use it, you have a game that is truly f2p through grinding but sane folks have to buy services that increase the speed of xp accrual, item find etc, or you have an all in subscription model. I challenge you to find me a model that does not fit into one of those three categories.

Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't make it impossible. I don't recall a game before PFO asking for a sub to gain xp over time either. I am just taking what PFO is currently doing and altering it slightly.

Think of the all-in subscription model then take the subscription out of it. Now you have a F2P game but no advancement possibility. You add in the Advancement Packs. Now you have a F2P game with purchasable xp. Done. Same game, same level of advancement, ability for new players to "catch up", and more people playing.
Myl - Herald of Stone Bear Clan (Tavernhold)
"You can walk into Tavernhold but a horse will have to carry you out."
Takasi
It's not the same game Ravenlute. I'm not paying for xp; I'm paying to be able to play my character. If I don't pay, I can't play at all. I can't craft. I can't get achievements. I can't help my guild. I can't keep my influence.

There are many EXISTING gamers who would just stop paying if they could keep logging into their accounts to craft, not to mention most future players who I suspect would never spend the amount of money JUST for xp like you're suggesting. Many people are only selling their accounts because they don't want to keep paying every month to hold onto the amount of xp they have. If they knew they could keep playing and buy xp later if they wanted to then they would stop selling their accounts. Right now many people have their subs in hope that they'll have value. Look at the Paizo buy and sell thread. People are buying accounts and keeping those monthly fees going in. Few people let their accounts lapse, save for a few settlement leaders who don't want to keep paying but also don't want to hand their settlement powers over to someone else. The torch gets passed. What you're asking for is to let every veteran play for free and I think at this stage more would than wouldn't.
Ravenlute
Takasi
What about playtime? You're saying it's ok to let people play as much as they want without paying anything?

Yes.

Takasi
Telling someone they can play the game, acquire mats, join a guild, contribute, and do extremely well for $30 in xp vs being about 150% better for $200 in xp is just not going to fly with most gamers.

I challenge that idea. People are willing to drop $200 for a single Smallholding just for the advantage of storage and a place to restore Power away from a Settlement. Damn straight folks will fork over money to be 150% better.

Takasi
They took away the box price and lost a third of their monthly revenue. If people are willing to pay $30 to play the game but not $15 a month to continue playing, then why would that same audience spend $200 to get to Tier 3? XP expenses just aren't designed for that. They would have to completely redesign the xp system to make that work.

The reason they aren't paying to continue playing has nothing to do with the pricing and all to do with the game not being worth playing at the time for them. The same audience won't be getting to T3 because they aren't playing at all. Goblinworks did lose money when they got rid of the box price because that was the access for trying out the game. You had to pay to try it out. When that went away people weren't giving them money to try the game. Returning the box price will only require curious people to pay upfront to see if the game is something they like. It has nothing to do with whether those people will continue to play and pay for xp.

Takasi
What will happen is new gamers will pay the $30 to get a decent tier 2 character, keep PFO in their library, log in occasionally to see how the game is doing and play when there are updates. I do not see Goblinworks increasing their revenue by giving even more gameplay away for free.

What you just described is a game that folks aren't interested in playing. If there is a fun game to play, then gamers will do more than just log in occasionally. For those that lose interest, is it so bad to allow them to come in now and again to play with their friends and maybe find a reason to invest their time and money? Sure beats a game with less people.
Myl - Herald of Stone Bear Clan (Tavernhold)
"You can walk into Tavernhold but a horse will have to carry you out."
Takasi
Most gamers have not bought smallholdings, which proves that people will only pay what they perceive as optimal to their own perception of value. You are not addressing that XP is simply not scaled to the value in your model.

In the Steam thread you said:

Ravenlute
I don't know where you are getting the xp idea, it has no bearing on my opinion here. For myself, once I hit T2, xp became an afterthought due to the large costs of raising abilities. I really don't care a rip about it, or if folks have more or less.

I think most gamers would agree with you, and that the pricing model you suggested would cause Goblinworks to lose even more money than it's making today.

They said they wanted to add the box price back to the GW site two months ago and they still haven't done that yet. Even if your post was the greatest pricing change suggestion ever I don't think it's going to happen in 2016.

And it doesn't matter if the game is the most engaging game in the world or not. Some people will still only login very casually because that's what they want to do with their time. In the current model GW gets $15 whether a player is on 24 hours a day or ten minutes a month. You say it has to do with "interest" but that's not true at all. Some people just have more time than others.

And yes, it's a bad thing to let people come in and play for free if Goblinworks loses even more revenue and closes the entire game. You're suggesting that a pricing model where they make less money is a positive thing as long as the game is more populated.
Ravenlute
Takasi
It's not the same game Ravenlute. I'm not paying for xp; I'm paying to be able to play my character. If I don't pay, I can't play at all. I can't craft. I can't get achievements. I can't help my guild. I can't keep my influence.

You ARE paying for xp. You can't get xp without paying for it. This game allows that function to be separate from the ability to play, craft, get achievements, which is what I've pointed out in this thread. It's unique to this game. Like you said, you are paying to be able to play your character. If you could play without paying, would you?

Takasi
There are many EXISTING gamers who would just stop paying if they could keep logging into their accounts to craft, not to mention most future players who I suspect would never spend the amount of money JUST for xp like you're suggesting. Many people are only selling their accounts because they don't want to keep paying every month to hold onto the amount of xp they have. If they knew they could keep playing and buy xp later if they wanted to then they would stop selling their accounts. Right now many people have their subs in hope that they'll have value. Look at the Paizo buy and sell thread. People are buying accounts and keeping those monthly fees going in. Few people let their accounts lapse, save for a few settlement leaders who don't want to keep paying but also don't want to hand their settlement powers over to someone else. The torch gets passed. What you're asking for is to let every veteran play for free and I think at this stage more would than wouldn't.

Great! Let them play! The pricing model should not be forced to cater to those individuals who decided they wanted to profit from selling accounts. You're saying that Goblinworks will lose money because those unplayed accounts will stop funneling money to them to keep their subscriptions up. You would be correct. There would no longer be a need to buy an old account from another player. Instead a new player can hand their money directly to Goblinworks with the safety and guarantee of getting what they paid for. This would more than make up for the losses of those halted subs. Assuming of course that there is a game worth paying for, but really that's more of a discussion for the Retention thread.
Myl - Herald of Stone Bear Clan (Tavernhold)
"You can walk into Tavernhold but a horse will have to carry you out."
Takasi
Ravenlute
]You ARE paying for xp. You can't get xp without paying for it. This game allows that function to be separate from the ability to play, craft, get achievements, which is what I've pointed out in this thread. It's unique to this game. Like you said, you are paying to be able to play your character. If you could play without paying, would you?

No. I think if that happened the game would run out of money and I wouldn't be able to play at all. XP is small bonus for paying to play.

Ravenlute
Great! Let them play! The pricing model should not be forced to cater to those individuals who decided they wanted to profit from selling accounts. You're saying that Goblinworks will lose money because those unplayed accounts will stop funneling money to them to keep their subscriptions up. You would be correct. There would no longer be a need to buy an old account from another player. Instead a new player can hand their money directly to Goblinworks with the safety and guarantee of getting what they paid for. This would more than make up for the losses of those halted subs. Assuming of course that there is a game worth paying for, but really that's more of a discussion for the Retention thread.

My point was that there are many players, including a very small portion who are so frustrated that they're willing to sell their accounts, that are only paying because they've invested so much into the game and see value in their characters. If they could play for free they would, and I think more would over time than players who might spend $200+ dollars for a Tier 3 character. I think most people would settle at T2 and enjoy the game for free.

Even you said xp didn't matter to you after you hit T2.
Ravenlute
Takasi
In the Steam thread you said:

Ravenlute
I don't know where you are getting the xp idea, it has no bearing on my opinion here. For myself, once I hit T2, xp became an afterthought due to the large costs of raising abilities. I really don't care a rip about it, or if folks have more or less.

I think most gamers would agree with you, and that the pricing model you suggested would cause Goblinworks to lose even more money than it's making today.

Yup, xp has no bearing on my reason to play the game or why I think it shouldn't be on Steam yet. That doesn't mean I wouldn't continue to purchase it so I can advance my character in different ways horizontally instead of vertically.

Takasi
And it doesn't matter if the game is the most engaging game in the world or not. Some people will still only login very casually because that's what they want to do with their time. In the current model GW gets $15 whether a player is on 24 hours a day or ten minutes a month. You say it has to do with "interest" but that's not true at all. Some people just have more time than others.

That wouldn't change. A person that logs in every day or once a month would still have the option to pay $15, get their xp and improve their character. Maybe someone isn't able to play for 3 months then they come back, drop $45 and get the 3 months of xp they missed out on. Or maybe someone only has a very limited amount of time and they don't want to pay $15 a month because they don't feel they would be able to get their moneys worth in time played. This way they can get some xp, and after four months of only playing weekends maybe they decide to get some more. Should that person who only played 32 days be required to pay $60? I'm offering flexibility and player choice to how they spend their money and time.

Takasi
And yes, it's a bad thing to let people come in and play for free if Goblinworks loses even more revenue and closes the entire game. You're suggesting that a pricing model where they make less money is a positive thing as long as the game is more populated.

Perception of a game is very important when it comes to whether a customer will pay for it or not. Good rating and a higher population contribute to a positive perception. They may not be making money from a one-time box purchase but they will from the people who enjoy the game and continue to play it.
Myl - Herald of Stone Bear Clan (Tavernhold)
"You can walk into Tavernhold but a horse will have to carry you out."
 
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