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Pricing

Duffy Swiftshadow
Details of the cash for XP thing kinda matter. If it boils down to the cap is based on the curve of XP growth we currently have and you can always buy up to the cap for about $15 per month, I wouldn't have much of an issue with it. Still need to do all the achievement work and what not but it's equivalent to sitting on a character gaining XP today.

But what does that mean for the average player? Do they purchase just enough XP to hit the T2 sweet spot and then never buy XP again? Or will they start making secondary characters? There is a really big difference when the subscription itself not only gains you XP but governs access to the game world. Is a FTP with cash for XP just going to create a cycle of specialized alts or folks buying one character up to a certain skill level? When the cost to specialize is the same as the cost to grow a single character into multiple areas there is no reason not to make multiple characters. Is that good or bad?

Is cash for XP going to be enough of a reliable source of income? Or will they need to drastically expand the fluff and cosmetic stuff to help?

FTP is not a simple choice, it's a business model that ties heavily into how your game works and tends to tie your hands mechanically and create complex solutions to the problem of generating revenue. The very core foundations of PFO do not currently lend themselves to FTP, they would need to make some significant alterations.

Personally, I would be willing to spend what I currently am, but depending on how such a drastic change interacted with the game and the community could result in me not wanting to spend anything on it. The specifics of the implementation is very important.
Paddy Fitzpatrick
I would like to be the first to answer that…

If I felt I was getting the value that I wanted out of it, I would be more than willing to pay for XP a la carte instead of being forced to pay $15 a month. I stick it out in this game mostly cause I'm trying to see if somehow the bandit concept can be done, but with the population as is and with the lack of basic social features it's next to impossible to keep going. It is also hard to find any prey here as well since this world is too big, there aren't any major POIs that the bulk of the people would have an incentive to go to (like say, a dungeon of some sort?), and the chances of running into someone on the map at all are so small that on some nights they are almost statistically insignificant.

The only time I've ever had a taste of PvP was when I did that friendly hunt game with Hobson. I lost twice to him but it was good to actually get some real practice. It gives me hope that there are some people who wanna generate some content around here.

Now I keep hearing bout these Steam games so let me tell ya bout my experiences with that. There are other games out there people are trying out, like Shroud of the Avatar, Linkrealms, etc. I've only played Linkrealms so far which is sort of like an UO throwback of sorts. For the problems that game has had (which include graphics that are not considered on par by today's standards) it is a blast to play. Maybe I can get some of these guys in Fianna to come over to try PFO. If that's gonna work though ya gotta have a game for my boys to come into.

I'm an old school kinda guy, I don't give a crap about graphics, and sometimes low end graphics are a plus to me. That said, it is important to have the kind of awesome gameplay if the graphics are lower end. This seems one of those games that has the potential to be something different but it doesn't have any of the core things that make a game enjoyable on a basic level. I will say other games I have tried do have this. They have friends lists, more friend and guild communication methods, decent npc and content (even in open PvP sandbox games like Linkrealms is), a better laid out map for both the towns in game and the distance between them and the various POIs, especially dungeons. The lower level ones and the ones closest to town sometimes turn into battlegrounds because everyone naturally wants go to these places to level up and get decent loot. So stuff just kinda happens naturally, that's just the way of things, and you get used to it and come to enjoy it (or not if you realize it's not your cup of tea).

The combat isn't nearly as deep as PFO can be I think, and I think there are things that PFO can definitely offer IF they do this right. However, people are playing other Steam games cause they aren't doing subs and they can pay as they go. Some are more P2W than others and while that is a bad thing, it's still a lot better than what seems to be goin on here. It is kinda weird but when you do essentially the same thing in a different way, it feels different. With the F2P ideas that people like Jokken and Ravenlute are trying to come up with, you have that sense of CHOICE! You can choose (even if it isn't a particularly good choice) to go either way but still be able to play the game. It gives people warm fuzzies and make em feel like they can have their cake and eat it too. With a sub you don't really got a choice, you either pay or don't play at all and if ya take that freedom you better be offering some really good stuff in return.

Ravenlute's got the right idea here and it if I had my way I would find some means to implement this model or something very similar to it. I would add if they're gonna add that box price back in give a lot more to start off with for said box price. Give more than 1k XP to start with then, stuff like that. If you make it fun and you make it worth having people WILL pay for it. If you make vanity stuff and you make it badass looking, people WILL pay it just to look badass. Gotta have dat fashion after all.

Why not have price items for cosmetics for buildings for your settlement? Give your home a custom look and feel and make it feel like…well…home?
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Paddy Fitzpatrick
@Takasi

I gotta say, I think you're really missing a lot of the key points here dude. The problem with your argument is you seem to have this thought like T3 people are just gonna start popping up like daisies or something. You still got all those achievement and stat gates before you can even get all that shiny T3 stuff anyway and there's a lot of gameplay you're gonna have to do. You don't just get a free pass to T3 so it ain't P2W by any means.

So what if people only pay to get high T2 for a while and stop paying in for a while? So it means they still get access to the game where as with the sub model we got they wouldn't be able to play. Guess what they ARE doing when they are playin "for free"? They are PLAYING THE GAME! The point of this whole thing is not just about the money (though that is needed), but how can we make the game grow? Ravenlute's ideas and others who are following that same road are trying to find ways not to make the game a mere cash cow money grab, but to make the game grow both in population and eventually in quality. If you change to a better pricing model people will play it. If you make more xp worth having people will pay it and keep paying it. People will then continue to PLAY the game until they want/need more xp and other things. Get a positive feedback loop going and now more people are here doing more things and thus there is more to do in the game. With more to do in the game and more people having fun doing them, that will get out and more players still will come.

You seem like a nice guy, but look, I hate to tell ya this but you're ideas of just keeping things "stable" and upholding the status quo are just going to lead to stagnation and eventually death. It's like that guy who only insists on playing one particular version of D&D and refuses to consider anything else while his friends are already moving on to other editions. That's the same thing here. If nothing changes and it turns into only a tiny handful of people who wanna cling to the past despite the fact that it seems most people are already moving on, then this game will never grow and never reach its potential. If a price model change is what needs to be done then do it. What else is there to lose at this point? Ravenlute's ideas give possibilities for improvement, growth, and change for the better along with others who are doing the same. Growth is what this game needs, not just to get by and barely stay afloat.

I wanna keep playing this game, but we need a game that will meet the potential this thing has, not something where people are just paying for a game that will never go anywhere just so it will stay afloat. That's not the game I wanna see. I wanna see a game with more people in it, a game with more ways to communicate with said people, and a game where the interactions are frequent, fun, varied, and meaningful. That ain't happening to the level that it needs to for as long as I have been here. I've had more fun bonding with my new guildmates in Fianna from other games in the past few weeks and have had more opportunities than at any point in my few months of being in this game. For a social MMO that says something to me about how bad the current status quo is dude. It doesn't have to be though.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Giorgio
The last couple of pages of discussions have not mentioned the previously written/debated "goblin balls" and "hybrid XP Subscription model" that was a big point of contention before the "dark times" started; are these not relevant to the topic on hand?
First Elder Durin Steelforge; Leader of Forgeholm; Founder of Steelforge Engineering Company

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Paddy Fitzpatrick
What were goblin balls and hybrid subscription models?
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Bringslite
Paddy Fitzpatrick
What were goblin balls and hybrid subscription models?

Goblin Balls were/are going to be units of xp that you could buy at the "store" and be tradable "in-game" like plex? in EVE online. Probably NOT vulnerable to destruction or looting, yet tradable for coin or whatever.

I'm a little fuzzy about the hybrid thing unless it is essentially what I wrote up there…
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Paddy Fitzpatrick
How about this, have an initial box price which gives ya maybe a few months of game time along with a few other nice starting goodies (maybe better T1 starting gear or some crafting materials to start off). I dunno what the best price would be but make it comparable to a few months normally. Making the box price a bundle instead of a base requirement could give ya some better bang for the buck and a few months is what is needed to get into T2 and also get involved with the people in the game world already. You can have other bundles as well perhaps to make it interesting. Either way, once those months are up then you can try to do a sub. That way, if people are more invested in the game and more involved already they will want to keep playing. Since eventually they will all be using the same gear once they get to T2 it ain't P2W and the sub will be something people will pay in order to keep going. Even if they do not sub then ya still are making money if people play long enough. May also be a good model if they try to release this on Steam someday.

Then of course, you gotta make the game good and fun too. Still got my fingers crossed here.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
 
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