Cookies Disclaimer

I agree Our site saves small pieces of text information (cookies) on your device in order to authenticate logins, deliver better content and provide statistical analysis. You can adjust your browser settings to prevent our site from using cookies, but doing so will prevent some aspects of the site from functioning properly.

There is a way to get social points beside killing PCs?

Baron Malthius
New players will not be having DTs, and will not be as inclined to have a crafter alt.

I don't think that is the case as much as you may think. Once a new player realizes, as I and other people I have played with figured out, that you do require crafting alts not just for your own ability to gather and create gear for sale but also to help maintain your settlement mates, they will get them unless the population becomes so large AND enough people choose crafting to support the PvE and PvP populations. Even if it is not a strict requirement, settlements can easily pull ahead of the crowd by simply generating more crafter alts. Even when if the population was larger, that would just expound the problem. He who manages the most alts wins. In this regard, there is a pay to win aspect because if your settlement is missing something all someone has to do is pay for another account. The only thing that isn't possible is being a party of one but that's solely due to purely physical limitations. I'm sure if one were somehow physically capable of running a party of six characters owned and played by one person at the same time we would see a lot more groups running around the server and very few solo players. That's really the only truly limiting factor and again that's pay to win since the obvious advantage in crafting, PvE and PvP would go to those who spend enough money to buy up all those subscriptions. I highly doubt that a new player would fail to pick up on this, especially as they would see every other player settlement/alliance in the game doing it. If they wanna get ahead in PFO they need alts, that's just simply the reality of the situation. Unless there are incentives for not having alts it is going to continue to be the case.

Also, think about this, let's say there was a population explosion and we finally got to the kind of population we have been saying was needed for a game like this for some time now. So, how many crafting characters is it going to take to both:

A) Maintain the number of PvE and PvP players and keep them geared up on a somewhat regular basis
B) Keep the economy going

If you have too few, one or both can suffer. If more people want to focus on PvE and PvP than there are crafters, then either the current crafter population will have to do an insane amount of effort to keep up, more alts need to be made, or both. An increase in population will not see a decrease in the number of alts but will see a further increase. Even if it isn't a requirement, it will also be done since any savvy player will realize that having multiple accounts is the way to get ahead in this game more so than other MMOs I have played.
Baron Malthius
Also, as far as the population increase goes, there is another issue, which is the one of a precedent already being set. We have been so used to having multiple accounts, multiple alts, and different kinds of alts that I have often made the cynical joke of how if you have a problem to solve in this game, throw another alt at it. It has pretty much become such a staple in the PFO community that I doubt when new players start coming in again they will fail to notice this. Unfortunately, we have also become so dependent on throwing another alt at our problems (which is in part due to the limitations of the mechanics and in part to said lack of population) that it is not something that will be easily removed.

It would require in the very least a large wave of ne wplayers flooding in to the game to the point where those who would not want to consider throwing more alts at a problem will not feel the need to do so simply because others have already done so for them. That may be a start but I'm sure that again, once they figure out that they can't have both a T3 crafter and a T3 PvE or PvP person in the same character (not unless they want to wait a couple of years at least), they will continue to buy more accounts to make specialized alts.
Bringslite
Cal
"The loot multiplier is minimal, since the core chance gets divided among party members. Mechanically, 6 people having a little better chance of finding something on the bodies than one person is not at particularly unreasonable nor is it necessarily "magically" generating more loot. Two sets of eyes really are better than one."

That is possibly the case with big ticket loot. Each person's chance is a bit lower. I believe that has been stated a few times. It is a cold hard fact that if I go in solo and wipe out one hundred goblins, a party of 6 that kill 100 goblins will have a great deal more loot in the form of salvage and coin.

I'm not really against this policy. Players need rewards for doing things. I do feel like it is very much more difficult to manage "faucets" for GW with this kind of set up. A real balanced economic equation (probably not possible) is pretty tough when all aspects (coin and goods) can be created from thin air. Thin air is a stretch, but I think you know what I mean. Or, put another way, one player can generate more items into the world than he can dispose of through commerce. Selling raw, refined or finished.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Yrme
Caldeathe Baequiannia
The too-many-crafters issue is self correcting, (Both Tyncale and Stache have gone inactive) and again, requires patience as we wait for the population to balance. New players will not be having DTs, and will not be as inclined to have a crafter alt. Where they do, many will be quite keen to take over existing trained crafters from people that aren't interested any more, or who are only running multiple accounts out of a feeling of necessity. With a larger population, excess crafters will cease to be an issue.

I think this isn't quite right.

As a character gets up in the range of 16-20 in his first attribute, it often makes sense to buy crafting levels in increase attributes. A player has the choice to spread the xp around, or to train one crafting skill up to the Tier 2 level. The further we go to Tier 3 combat characters, the more we'll see a serious growth in Tier 2 crafting capability. And it only makes sense for characters to have some crafting capability, so that they can spend crafting queue time that would otherwise be lost.

Some might say that only top tier crafters need to be considered as crafters. I'd suggest that we are supposed to be able to outfit ourselves with pure T3 gear; once threads get implemented, if the design goes that way, even the top combat characters will always have a mix of T3 and T2 gear. Every additional T2 crafter in a settlement keeps the T3 crafters focused. And there will be tons of T2 capable crafting; every character past a certain age will be a crafter in his down time.
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Baron Malthius
New players will not be having DTs, and will not be as inclined to have a crafter alt.

I don't think that is the case as much as you may think.
I think it's pretty close to exactly what I think. A person who doesn't want to travel to the next settlement, or who has to wait for the weekend to connect with the one person in their settlement who can make a Disciple's Holy Symbol +2, has a reason to decry the lack of an Iconographer, and consider making one. Once there are a few hundred people in the settlement, and there is always an appropriate crafter online, or the item they need is readily available in the nearest AH, they no longer have a strong reason to devote time and money to doing it themselves. At that point, most will only add a new crafter if they really want to do that job. The issue at the moment is accessibility. If the entire population lived in a single settlement, there would not be 15 or 20 T2 iconographers each making a couple of items a week while sitting idle most of the time.

There will always be more than we need. That's what makes economics work. There will not always be 10 times as many as we need.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Yrme
I think this isn't quite right.

As a character gets up in the range of 16-20 in his first attribute, it often makes sense to buy crafting levels in increase attributes. A player has the choice to spread the xp around, or to train one crafting skill up to the Tier 2 level. The further we go to Tier 3 combat characters, the more we'll see a serious growth in Tier 2 crafting capability. And it only makes sense for characters to have some crafting capability, so that they can spend crafting queue time that would otherwise be lost.

Some might say that only top tier crafters need to be considered as crafters. I'd suggest that we are supposed to be able to outfit ourselves with pure T3 gear; once threads get implemented, if the design goes that way, even the top combat characters will always have a mix of T3 and T2 gear. Every additional T2 crafter in a settlement keeps the T3 crafters focused. And there will be tons of T2 capable crafting; every character past a certain age will be a crafter in his down time.
Cross training is not nearly as much an issue at higher levels, and just because someone finds it worthwhile taking a craft to get a skill up doesn't mean they are ever going to craft more than they have to to get the level they need. Unless they are making things for other people, either directly, or via an AH, they are not a crafter.

If the issue ( as is being discussed) is excess resources in the game, then how many people are crafting does not change that. 100 crafters can't make any more sets of armour with a given collection of raw matts than 1 can, they just do it faster. Nor do they have any effect on the rate of sink, excepting that they, too, require armour in order to be at their most crafty. If too many people choose to craft once the population is sustainable (which I doubt [and, by the way, who gets to decide what is "too many crafters" in a sandbox?]), then there is a game design flaw, but it isn't something that is going to cause excess resources.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Bringslite
Not sure who I am backing and who debating with this opinion, but in the issue of too many crafters, I don't see the number or percentage falling off. Then again, not everyone looks at things the same way and this has turned away from "current evidence" and toward "speculative guesstimation".

When I take a dip (from combat/adventuring skills) into a trade for ability points, I do it for two reasons. The first is that points IN vs. points OUT = more gain. The second reason is that I figure I will probably NEVER USE all of these obscure attacks that I could train but, that I MIGHT find gathering, refining, crafting of some practical use.

I will admit that characters built this way (so far) mostly do not end up being primary in any "crafting field" within Ozem's Vigil. They do however get to use their skills more than they would ever use the obscure Roshambo attack skilled to rank 6.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Bringslite
Reading back a bit, it looks like there is a general agreement that T3 crafters are going to be more rare. What I mean is T3 that carry on to 20.

Take this with a grain of salt: Looking at crafting above rank 14 or 15 there seems little use right now for some crafters to go higher. Definitely not gatherers. There could be a case for an Engineer to stop at 13, in fact. I am sure there are others. This will eventually get addressed, but when?

Edit: 10 changed to 13
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Midnight
The current glut of refiners/crafters could probably handle the next 50,000 players' needs as long as those 50,000 players train their own gathering skills and gather.

If I had to survive on just one account I'd do tier 2 gathering, tier 2 combat, and then tier 3 gathering followed by tier 3 combat skills. Tier 3 of a SINGLE gathering skill ought to bring in mats that can be sold for enough to buy tier 3 gear.

By the time you get OVER 50,000 players, we're looking at an all new game, and its anyone's guess how a larger population will adapt.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Bringslite
Could a case be made that placing structures is a Social Achievement for your settlement? Some worth more than others…
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
 
You must be logged into an enrolled account to post