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What really happened there?

Decius
Doc: did you think that the power projection up north that came from the EBA a couple of times was sustainable? Even if we were able to keep winning major victories, after a couple days the fatigue of going up, fighting, and returning would have set in.

Organizing an expeditionary force that can provide useful support requires a lot of work, with somebody coordinating comms starting at least half an hour plus transit time before the window opens, and lasting through the entire fight. Then to learn anything takes a debrief which adds another half hour.

Being on for two+ hours, working multiple TS during most of that, and only having damaged gear and social achievements for it got tiring quickly without dealing with added travel time and risk.
Midnight
Most people make the mistake of thinking their opponents are like them. My bet is Doc assumed you could sustain it, because he could have if he had your numbers.

It never occurred to me until I began witnessing the forum complaints and dwindling numbers that the EBA's PvP was unsustainable, even in their own backyard.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Duffy Swiftshadow
Midnight
Most people make the mistake of thinking their opponents are like them. My bet is Doc assumed you could sustain it, because he could have if he had your numbers.

It never occurred to me until I began witnessing the forum complaints and dwindling numbers that the EBA's PvP was unsustainable, even in their own backyard.

+1 for insight
Decius
Midnight
Most people make the mistake of thinking their opponents are like them. My bet is Doc assumed you could sustain it, because he could have if he had your numbers.

It never occurred to me until I began witnessing the forum complaints and dwindling numbers that the EBA's PvP was unsustainable, even in their own backyard.

It wasn't until I realized that fighting the Killer style players' characters was the opposite of opposing them that the war finally went cold.
Midnight
I spend the influence required to engage in military style objective-oriented sanctioned PvP and when you don't show up you're thwarting "killer style players"?

The spin is strong with this one.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Tigari
Decius
Midnight
Most people make the mistake of thinking their opponents are like them. My bet is Doc assumed you could sustain it, because he could have if he had your numbers.

It never occurred to me until I began witnessing the forum complaints and dwindling numbers that the EBA's PvP was unsustainable, even in their own backyard.

It wasn't until I realized that fighting the Killer style players' characters was the opposite of opposing them that the war finally went cold.

And this is were the game finally failed for me. The first moment someone could just say "Screw it" and stop fighting for their stuff, without consequences, took away evrything from everything.
Decius
Midnight
I spend the influence required to engage in military style objective-oriented sanctioned PvP and when you don't show up you're thwarting "killer style players"?

The spin is strong with this one.

/useful portion of thread.

Bye.
Tigari
Midnight
I spend the influence required to engage in military style objective-oriented sanctioned PvP and when you don't show up you're thwarting "killer style players"?

The spin is strong with this one.
+100
Bringslite
Doc
Why would we or how would we know that you would not come back after the first few tries that you started without a shred of warning?

Nothing further developed later in the affair or anywhere else because *we* had no way of knowing if EBA would just come and break all of our toys anytime we attacked anyone anywhere. My mega thread on the topic at the time covered it all I think.

I wasn't talking about AFTER THAT NIGHT. I was referring TO THAT NIGHT. I don't remember anything in your mega thread suggesting, after your first cpl nights coming at us out of the blue, that you had had enough. I am uncertain why you would believe that we did not expect more nights of having to REACT to your moves if we didn't change the momentum. Reacting to the moves of opponents is not an ideal strategy, usually.

OR at least that they might fight back in a manner and with a goal of winning.

I would have expected Ozem's Vigil to come attack us. I wasn't expecting EBA to come and stomp on us like bugs.

It wasn't "you" that came back and beat us again, it was effectively representatives of half the server's groups. For no good reason other than we're all super secret friends let's gang rape them? Or Aragon needed to be put under the boot? It was disproportionate and highlights the poor level of strategy and psychology present in the involved leadership at the time.

We did come back at you with pretty much the groups that YOU stirred up by attacking + one or two from EBA that turned out to have run up for little purpose. The rest doesn't deserve comment but I do want to get through to you, for the future if nothing else. Our participation vs Aragon was a single tower that we didn't even defend the very next night. Why not? Because you can't win in PfO except by demonstrating that you are not to be messed with. Number of Towers was smoke and useless, unless you had none. In the long run, towers were useless. As far as whatever the other groups did, they can explain themselves if they want to.

Don't preach to me about Clauswitz, I play grand strategy games for fun. This was not about distaste for total victory, it was about my frustration with people making regional conflict in a fledgling sandbox game non-viable, essentially before the game even started. Hence why me and Atheory were constantly railing against the NAP and all of that crap.

Ozem's policy is to WIN in the tradition of Clausewitz or if against impossible odds (this hurts) make terms. Render your opponent unable to continue. However you can.

AGC was doing that before everyone else by attacking harvesters and crafters in town early in EE, and we were told not to because it hurt the game and hurt people's feelings. Our tactics were specifically to try to hurt what we perceived as threats to map balance by using guerilla warfare, all we could muster at our size vs a juggernaut. Either way I stopped. We sought out legitimate battle with an equal sized opponent and you come back and roflstomp. hilarious.

I'm not preaching to you, Doc. (at least not on purpose) Just trying to offer you an insight into how someone else felt and why they acted the way they did. I have tried to be friendly with you even though by RP standards you would be an ancient enemy of Ozem's Vigil. Almost from as far back as a whole year! As for the NAP, there were LOTS of towers not covered by the NAP. If you had PMed me any time before that "night where you were treated so terribly" that you were done screwing with TFH for awhile, it might not have happened. I have reached out and INVITED you to come play bandit in my member's normally safe (feeling) neighborhoods. That lasted about 3 days?

It's bizarre how some of you are so against the total warfare concept except when it is you doing it.

All right. I find it bizarre that you are mad at others for the results of things that you did. I suppose that I can agree to disagree with you.

Now do you begin to understand why I dislike many of you? You still might think I'm crazy, but that is essentially a run up to where I am today (including info from the other thread on Freevale) and why I act and type the way I do.

I understand that you are mad. I understand that you dislike "many of us". I don't think you're crazy, I just don't/can't see things the way that you have laid them out, even as logically as you have. I do thank you for trying though.

Take away one thing from this if nothing else. As the game continued past this ruckus TFH re involved itself in conflicts far from home. The result was that EoX showed us that we really should reconsider that policy. They probably could have rolled up ALL of TFH towers in one night. As it was, they hurt us pretty badly and they taught us a good lesson: Know what you are getting into, before you run in. We didn't feel their response was overboard even though it set us back for a cpl months at least. We made a cease fire agreement. smile
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Bringslite
Midnight
I spend the influence required to engage in military style objective-oriented sanctioned PvP and when you don't show up you're thwarting "killer style players"?

The spin is strong with this one.

That bolded part there? That really isn't anyone's fault except GWs. saying that it is spin is disingenuous. You had your war. Had kept up the pressure until the other side was fatigued and stopped playing the game your way. You got bored and many of you left.

You got to eat ALL the cookies in the jar as fast as possible until the jar was empty and would not refill. This comment looks like you are disturbed that the jar did not keep refilling for your pleasure.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
 
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