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Power Regeneration

Seraph
Splitting this discussion off from the other thread since people seemed to have some things to say about it. I certainly do.

Pretty much everyone knows that Auspicious Critical is broken. Bug reports have been submitted. The feat has been broken since its introduction most of a year ago. And I'm so glad it is, because it makes the game much more fun for me! I have some spells I really like to use, and this means I get to use them a lot! To summarize the bug, you currently get 4 power back whenever you use any ability, when the text seems to indicate it should only trigger on critical hits. This functionally means you can start a fight with an expendable or two and end the fight with most or all of your power back, and if you don't get it all back, you can spam something like Agile Feet to cap yourself off.

I submit that having more power available makes the game much more fun, the feat should be fixed but the base mechanic for power regeneration should be altered. I have brainstormed a few ideas on how that might be done:

1) Change the amount of power you have available to be something like 100 + armor feat + 5*[your highest attribute], then change the Power feat to set your regeneration rate. Something like 25% per hour plus 2% per feat rank, broken up into 10-minute intervals.

2) Make getting or contributing to kills regenerate power. Power is only really useful in combat, and when you're fighting you're hopefully getting kills. You get more in PvE than in PvP, but there's nothing unbalancing about giving more access to power in PvE. Get like 5% power back per kill and leave the Power feat how it is now. It still benefits you to raise the feat because you get more back per kill. And if you want to take a break from PvP to run around and kill mobs to get your power back, I figure hey, it still takes you out of the battle.

3) Remove the cooldown on using campfires to get power back. If you want to run out into battle carrying 10 campfires with you so that you can drop one every time you need power, go for it! If you die you'll lose some, and if you do it in PvP you might be giving them to your enemies. Defending a holding? Keep your campfires in the holding vault and pull them out if you dare, but good luck trying to catch a long enough break in combat to use them.

With the system how it is now, if I didn't have Auspicious Critical, I would have to save all my power for healing or else make frequent trips back to inns to wait around for the agonizingly slow process of getting my power refilled. Which brings me to one final proposal (to be implemented in addition to one of the above):

- Change the inn regeneration mechanic so it gets you some % of your power back per tick, instead of a fixed number. That would mean that all characters would need to spend the same amount of time recuperating, instead of making clerics and wizards sit out forever while fighters and rogues need only a short trip.
Seraph
Cleric of Sarenrae
Brighthaven
Decius
Just because it's broken and everybody knows about it doesn't mean you should be exploiting a known bug.
Midnight
Philosophically, you're right, Decius… but people were going to spam Agile Feat, anyway, regardless of the Auspicious Critical bug.

Clerics spam Agile Feat now, you can't expect them to stop on the day they can finally train Auspicious Critical.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Smitty
If I can use all my expendables every fight and have full power right after combat… that seems broken .. Why even have power regen as a thing, just turn it into stamina bar with another color.. and let it come back right after I drop combat..

PvP would be interesting if I could use biting gaze, hold monster. Mass hold monster.. Chain lighting, improved force missile.. every 30 seconds and not worry about running out of power during a 1.5 hour pvp window..
arty155jln
When it came to learning about power vs stamina I was a bit confused. Most traditional MMOs it's been stamina for melee characters and mana for casters, but PFO uses stamina for everything related to a recharging ability and Power for those once a day PnP/TT abilities. With such a broken/over-powered mechanic as Auspicious, it would be nice to see other ways of getting power back in between fights.

I don't want to look at this through the eyes of PvE, because it seems most PvE is pretty manageable without having to use/abuse power management. So as a design strategy what allows players only be able to use expendables 1 time during a PvP battle, but then quickly recharge for the next PvP push? The best solution I've heard so far, is the % regen of power based on max power.
arty155jln
Smitty
If I can use all my expendables every fight and have full power right after combat… that seems broken .. Why even have power regen as a thing, just turn it into stamina bar with another color.. and let it come back right after I drop combat..

PvP would be interesting if I could use biting gaze, hold monster. Mass hold monster.. Chain lighting, improved force missile.. every 30 seconds and not worry about running out of power during a 1.5 hour pvp window..
The way to curb the use of these powers is to put them on 60 minute cool down timers, or anything that is long enough where they can't be spammed. Currently it's very easy for players I hang out with to have full power at the end of fighting mobs. I'm not sure how this actually plays out in PvP, but it wouldn't be to hard to duplicate in PvP vs PvE.
Smitty
I would hate a cooldown clock ..

One of my favorite past times over the last month was to head out and kill dark elves when I couldn’t find anything else to do ..
I could kill groups of 2-3 .. by killing the first mob with heavy expendables, then resetting them then fighting the remaining 2 mobs.. once again opening with a high damage expendable..

I can keep that up for around 20-30 minutes .. it is quite profitable for soling stuff .. the only issue was taking a 5 min power break and running to the nearest inn of tavern. Every 30 minutes or so..

That meant having to pass on some champion and matron groups because I didn’t have the power to handle them..

So to a 1 hour cool down .. uggg please no .. I want to use my power let me ..

*
I think the idea behind auspicious critical is great .. I like ways to regen power because it is an advantage .. I think clerics spent xp on it and it needs to work .. but I think it should only work with criticals .. and shouldn’t give 160 power when you heal someone for that much etc ..

Id welcome my wizard having some sort of power tap on a critical .. I would probably spend xp on something like that .. but it cheapens a unique ability another role has .. so not sure it should be done.
arty155jln
Smitty
I would hate a cooldown clock ..



So to a 1 hour cool down .. uggg please no .. I want to use my power let me ..
I don't like the ideas of long cooldowns either, but as a game design how are cleric expendables supposed to function in comparison to other classes. If Auspicious is needed for power, then it is almost a must have for any build, that is unless fighter/rogue don't have a lot of good expendables which use power.

Personally I would like to see Power regen like stamina does, just at a slower rate (even out in the wildnerness or in combat). Then give clerics Auspicious as a passive to allow them regen power quicker. That becomes real choice; instead of trying to max a skill, allow the players to decide how much power regen they need based on their playstyle.
Edam
arty155jln
If Auspicious is needed for power, then it is almost a must have for any build, that is unless fighter/rogue don't have a lot of good expendables which use power.

No absolutely not.

Auspicious Critical is broken and needs fixing however it is not a huge issue when it is only a Cleric Feat as Cleric expendables only get used once a fight.

Giving Auspicious Critical (even the correctly working version) to a fighter/rogue who can spam the same expendable over and over in a fight would not just be broken it would be ludicrously overpowered. Especially since the fighters are going to be attacking with stamina and just spamming redouble every time it cools down.

There is some argument for a wizard version of the feat as wizard spells are also once per combat however:
  1. Wizard damage spells are far more powerful than cleric ones
  2. A wizard will already have power 24 the main gateway for Cleric 12 and will just need to invest a month or so XP into getting the Wisdom gate to take it as a wizard/cleric

If wizards get a version it should for balance be gated higher (Wizard 14?) then the cleric version. Giving it to fighters and rogues would be stupid UNLESS fighter and rogue manoeuvres are limited to once per combat (I would be very much in favor of such a change)

As far as power regeneration in general goes:
  1. With power levels above 25 or so it can take a stupidly long time standing at an inn or tavern to regenerate this is not fun game play
  2. Small holdings have virtually instant recovery but a ridiculously long cool down, longer than a normal play session. Small holdings in the current instantiation of the game are no longer worth their purchase price but that is a topic for another thread
  3. It seems that training higher power might mean it regens faster but if so the effect is too subtle to be relevant
  4. Training higher power starts to cost a week or more XP and adds 25 Power which is HALF OF ONE level 6 expendable, that is two weeks training to get to cast one of your spells one extra time
  5. Clerics in general simply do not have the power (or time) precombat to do the sort of mass buffing expected of them, casting several mass buffs before a combat will probably see a Power 26+ cleric out of power in half a dozen or less fights, this means expendables costing 12,000 plus XP to train get used once or twice a week in a boss fight
Tigari
arty155jln
Smitty
I would hate a cooldown clock ..



So to a 1 hour cool down .. uggg please no .. I want to use my power let me ..
I don't like the ideas of long cooldowns either, but as a game design how are cleric expendables supposed to function in comparison to other classes. If Auspicious is needed for power, then it is almost a must have for any build, that is unless fighter/rogue don't have a lot of good expendables which use power.

Personally I would like to see Power regen like stamina does, just at a slower rate (even out in the wildnerness or in combat). Then give clerics Auspicious as a passive to allow them regen power quicker. That becomes real choice; instead of trying to max a skill, allow the players to decide how much power regen they need based on their playstyle.

Every class has great expendables. The point of Power was to make a Meaning Choice (using works from ex head dev, Ryan Dancy), when using an expendable, so they weren't something you would just spam. I really like how Power works right now, If it worked like Stamina, so many expendables would have to be changed. They just need to fix/tone down how much power Auspicious Critical actually gives you, then everything would be fine. Don't allow it to "top off" your power, (unless you completely stop casting expendables for a long amount of time), but greatly slow down how long it takes for you to fully run out.

Also, remember EVERYONE who trains into cleric can get it, and for pvp, alot of us have a few levels into cleric already. I could easly see my rogue grabbing it once i get my cleric lvl high enought, as in group PVP, my main "job" comes from my expendables.
 
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