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Concerns over Settlement Costs

Lifedragn
Bringslite
@ Doc,

Whether NewCorp wipes everything or not…

I read that as NewsCorp at first. My brain stumbled over why FOX News would come for our game!
Drogon
I actually agree with Takasi, Mistwalker, Duffy and Bringslight on all their reasonings why there should be NO wipe while understanding that Nothing is guaranteed except death and taxes.smile
HpoD - "I have, however, sat and watched as others took things more personally (on both sides) and became zealots, charging forward on a shining white horse into a pile of shit. Forum Warriors at their peak, striding the battlefield knee deep in the bloody, broken arguments of their adversaries before the burning village of their credibility….Chill guys. "
Bringslite
Drogon
I actually agree with Takasi, Mistwalker, Duffy and Bringslight on all their reasonings why there should be NO wipe while understanding that Nothing is guaranteed except death and taxes.smile

How often do those four idiots agree on any one thing? smile
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Welp,

As far as wipes go, if bad or incomplete mechanics stay like that then no amount of wipes will help that. Finish the game then we will see if it's needed.

The only way I see this being needed is if the game has changed so much that it's practically a re-release. In that case, yeah, a wipe would make sense cause it's a different game. Maybe not completely but different enough so it would be better to start over than try to force old characters into a new type of game.

If the core of it stays more or less the same but finally gets "completed" (whatever that means), then we should keep the progress cause if we gotta grind all those achievements and shit again I'm gonna be really irate about this. Some of this was annoying enough and if I can avoid it, really don't wanna do it again.

Now, there is a middle ground here although I realize (based on some past threads I've read) I'm probably gonna get accused of heresy or something for saying it…

If the core stays close to this but everything gets done, changed around, or tweaked, I would say a one time respec before this Open Enrollment thing may be a good idea. Keep achievements as is but reset xp and stats. That way, if someone wants to change their shit, they gotta go through the grind to earn it just like if it were a new guy.

I'm willing to bet someone's gonna accuse me of wanting to munchkin the game or something and I'm sure some asshole will try it. That's why I said leave achievements as is so ya can't just jump into being a paladin or bard and gotta do it the hard way like everyone else. So you can slog through it all again to get something new or just make a better version of your existing build.

If the changes and balancing tweaks are enough to make a major difference but not enough to be a completely different game, then that makes sense. Pros outweight the cons I think.

*ducks for cover*
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of Aragon Alliance and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Edam
This is sort of reminiscent of the conversations in the last days of 3.5 D&D .

Longterm Players: If you do you actually reboot D&D this way you will kill the D&D brand in exchange for a few quick bucks from new players that will not stick around .
4th Ed Fanboys: Don't be ridiculous, you guys will still be here and anyway we don't need you anyway.
Longterm Players: Don't underestimate the importance of a longterm dedicated and experienced gaming community
4th Ed Fanboys: It will be awesome with all the new players and where will you guys go anyway

Enter Pathfinder.
Bringslite
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Welp,

As far as wipes go, if bad or incomplete mechanics stay like that then no amount of wipes will help that. Finish the game then we will see if it's needed.

The only way I see this being needed is if the game has changed so much that it's practically a re-release. In that case, yeah, a wipe would make sense cause it's a different game. Maybe not completely but different enough so it would be better to start over than try to force old characters into a new type of game.

If the core of it stays more or less the same but finally gets "completed" (whatever that means), then we should keep the progress cause if we gotta grind all those achievements and shit again I'm gonna be really irate about this. Some of this was annoying enough and if I can avoid it, really don't wanna do it again.

Now, there is a middle ground here although I realize (based on some past threads I've read) I'm probably gonna get accused of heresy or something for saying it…

If the core stays close to this but everything gets done, changed around, or tweaked, I would say a one time respec before this Open Enrollment thing may be a good idea. Keep achievements as is but reset xp and stats. That way, if someone wants to change their shit, they gotta go through the grind to earn it just like if it were a new guy.

I'm willing to bet someone's gonna accuse me of wanting to munchkin the game or something and I'm sure some asshole will try it. That's why I said leave achievements as is so ya can't just jump into being a paladin or bard and gotta do it the hard way like everyone else. So you can slog through it all again to get something new or just make a better version of your existing build.

If the changes and balancing tweaks are enough to make a major difference but not enough to be a completely different game, then that makes sense. Pros outweight the cons I think.

*ducks for cover*

I'm not after you with a frying pan, but these bolded parts are contradictory. If there is a grind, it is the achievements, isn't it? The xp comes at a rate that can't be changed by the character with or without grinding.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Quijenoth Starkiller
Gonna comment on a few things individually in one post because I haven’t had a chance to read this in a few days…

Takasi
And I will throw this out there even though nobody ever likes it.
How do other MMOs attract new players post launch?
1.) Expansions.
2.) New servers.
They work for theme park MMOs but not for sandbox MMOs. expansions for sandbox have generally been focused on adding new areas or changing mechanics that don’t quite work. Many are small updates that add new factions or races, only theme park games push the top end or encourage starting over. PFO has said if a new race comes out they will allow us to (for 1 time) change race. And you cant really have an open world environment on multiple servers without running into problems…

Takasi
Smitty, again, why wipe and not launch a new separate area in the River Kingdoms where only characters in the "post wipe" world start out and keep the old bubble available?

Following on from new servers…
Why would they spend money on hardware and double their workload when patching (patching two servers instead of one) increase their electricity bills and make it available for the “vets” only? Over time that population will shrink to a size that it’s not economically viable to play on and people will likely look at the new server (that is flourishing with new players) and start requesting server moves or have to start over…

Rebranding: perhaps changing PFO into a theme park MMO? It could happen if they feel the commodity is strong enough. And it wouldn’t take much to take what we have built and rebrand it with the mechanics from an existing game, like say Guild Wars 2. At that point it just becomes an art issue mostly. It would be a big 2 fingers to the couple hundred players still playing but if it brings in the hinted at 7 million players currently playing GW 2 then I guess that’s the way it will go.

On the 10,000 overthrowing and destroying the 20 in T3, are you all so short sighted that you wouldn’t expect those 20 to fight for what they have worked for? I imagine at least 70% of the 10,000 will look at the 20 with awe and join their ranks the moment they require level 9 training (if not before), then those 20 have an army of disposable peons to throw at their enemies while protecting their precious T3!
Quijenoth Starkiller Viceroy of Callambea
Company Leader of Beyond the Grave - www.beyond-pfo.com
Crafting Planner
Takasi
There are already multiple servers, they're just connecting all hexes together to give the appearance that it's a seamless world.

If they plan on making a bigger map for a larger population anyway there is no reason why they couldn't put a barrier between the new area and the old. The NW of the full OE map is the same size as the current map. It's already planned out.

The old area does not need to be for vets only. It could be for anyone who wants to join an already functional system. If people are unhappy with any "imbalances" they can start in the newer lands, but to be honest I think you'll actually see the old area flourishing, possibly more so, because of a strongly established economy and the greater demand for maintaining that economy.

How is a new area possibly a bad thing Quijenoth, compared to doing a complete wipe?

I do not think the overhead of keeping these servers is a cost issue. From talks with Lisa I believe they could keep the current environment up indefinitely based on today's subs alone; it's the development and future expansion that needs additional funding.

And what precedent are you getting the "you have to have one world for a sandbox" idea from? Star Wars Galaxies is a perfect example of it done very well, and to be honest I can't think of many MMOs in the market ever that only had one login world choice.
Quijenoth Starkiller
Really, your using SWG as a recipe for success? the game was shut down for a reason!
Quijenoth Starkiller Viceroy of Callambea
Company Leader of Beyond the Grave - www.beyond-pfo.com
Crafting Planner
Takasi
I was referring to pre NGE.

SWG was doing great for it's market but Sony wanted more money so they wiped everything and started over. It sucked.

So again Quijenoth, why do you think a wipe is better than a new zone?
 
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