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Concerns over Settlement Costs

Doc
"PFO is an interesting and promising niche game if they get it right (and I gambled big that they would), but I don't see myself coming back to a game if it has ripped me off by breaking its promises with both a wipe and no credit for subscription time bought."

Midnight, as you have mentioned you invest in bonds, if a company you have invested in goes bankrupt and you get a haircut on the bonds you own, if a new company buys the assets of said bankrupt company did the new company rip you off?

Nobody will have broken any promises, unless the new company promises to uphold all obligations of GoblinWorks. You can't get ripped off by a game, you get ripped off by people.
Duffy Swiftshadow
Doc
"PFO is an interesting and promising niche game if they get it right (and I gambled big that they would), but I don't see myself coming back to a game if it has ripped me off by breaking its promises with both a wipe and no credit for subscription time bought."

Midnight, as you have mentioned you invest in bonds, if a company you have invested in goes bankrupt and you get a haircut on the bonds you own, if a new company buys the assets of said bankrupt company did the new company rip you off?

Nobody will have broken any promises, unless the new company promises to uphold all obligations of GoblinWorks. You can't get ripped off by a game, you get ripped off by people.

Except that's not how any of this is going down…
Edam
Midnight
Such planning has worked wonderfully for me in 10 years of Eve-Online.

But you cannot bank unspent XP in EVE the way you can here?
Doc
"Except that's not how any of this is going down…"

Could you please (sincerely) explain that parts I've got wrong? Is a new company not slated to buy the licensing and assets for PFO to develop the project?
Duffy Swiftshadow
Doc
"Except that's not how any of this is going down…"

Could you please (sincerely) explain that parts I've got wrong? Is a new company not slated to buy the licensing and assets for PFO to develop the project?

Usually in a bankrupt situation assets are being purchased to pay off debts and the bankrupt company is effectively no more. The entity being sold off has very little say in how that gets done and most contracts are more or less voided aside from whatever generated revenue is used to pay off said debts.

In the case of PFO the still existent and solvent company is negotiating to sell the rights and software to another company to continue producing PFO and that sale will most likely come with some (agreed upon) stipulations. Lisa still grants the Pathfinder license and gets some significant level of say in any product that carries their name regardless of the specifics of the sale agreement. Additionally she is the primary person negotiating the terms of the sale, meaning that how the development of the game will proceed can and will most likely be part of that agreement.

Given the circumstances of the company and license, the people involved, and what we've been told so far (albeit little bits) what we're most likely going to see when the deal is finalized is a promise to continue the direction of the game based on the existing design in spirit if not details, a promise to complete most if not all in-game kickstarter rewards, and little to no change regarding the current state of the game world. What can and most likely will change (and would have probably even if GW was developing it all) is some of the details of how, what, and why certain things get done.
Doc
"Additionally she is the primary person negotiating the terms of the sale, meaning that how the development of the game will proceed can and will most likely be part of that agreement."

Ostensibly yes, but in reality?

Beggars can't be choosers. Unless Lisa is willing to fold up completely if the buyer doesn't want to comply with risky obligations (which many would consider were reasons for the venture failing in the first place).

I know this isn't a literal bankruptcy, I was only trying to make a very general comparison about obligations, but I think the concept of a separate company's contractual (not more than a verbal contract in reality from a kickstarter) agreements not being carried over applies.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Literal bankruptcy is a very special situation, which there is no way to compare to any other type of contract transfer. It negates many commitments that can not otherwise be negated except through breach of promise.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Doc
In kickstarters you just have to make a good faith attempt to comply with "promises". No new company could possibly be required to not wipe, unless voluntarily in order to seal the deal. It really all comes down to whether or not Lisa really needs to cash out or not, if she'd be willing to write off Paizo's investment in GW and fold up. I don't see the new company purposefully wanting to follow GW's strategies without coercion, since they didn't exactly pan out. I could see Lisa making reimbursement vouchers a pre-condition though, and if they really have $10+ million, I don't think covering this tiny community would be very onerous.
Mistwalker
One thing to keep in mind is that Lisa has stated more than once that when the game goes to open enrolment, she wants a living, breathing world waiting for the new players - where there is already player history in place. That can't happen if there is a wipe.
Midnight
Doc
"PFO is an interesting and promising niche game if they get it right (and I gambled big that they would), but I don't see myself coming back to a game if it has ripped me off by breaking its promises with both a wipe and no credit for subscription time bought."

Midnight, as you have mentioned you invest in bonds, if a company you have invested in goes bankrupt and you get a haircut on the bonds you own, if a new company buys the assets of said bankrupt company did the new company rip you off?

Nobody will have broken any promises, unless the new company promises to uphold all obligations of GoblinWorks. You can't get ripped off by a game, you get ripped off by people.

My corporate bonds are a contractual obligation that can only be avoided through criminal fraud, or the rulings of a bankruptcy judge. Coincidentally my latest bonds (VersoCo CUSIP: 92531xas1) just entered Chapter 11 today.

If G.W. wants to go through bankruptcy, I'll be happy to take my place in line with other "stakeholders" and let a wise old judge decide what to do.

Short of a G.W. bankruptcy, I expect GW or whoever they sell the game to, to honor their current obligations to PFO subscribers in a reasonable manner. I stress the word reasonable, because that is what credit card companies, attorneys general, district attorneys, and judges are going to look at regarding chargebacks, criminal fraud allegations and torts.

I'm guessing a wipe without compensation (sans bankruptcy) would trigger all that.

And once again, I'd like to stress how entirely unnecessary it would be to ripoff the miniscule number of existing accounts if this game attracts the masses, and how entirely unnecessary a wipe is if the game can't attract the masses. That sums up my own feelings on what is reasonable.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
 
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