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Concerns over Settlement Costs

Quijenoth Starkiller
Combat #4: 2 Large, 4 Medium at 20

K Keep1
L Garrison6
L CathedralLaw6
M Occultist School6
M Wizard Academy6
M Thieves Guild6
M Skirmisher School6

DI
Security 804
Civilization 650
Morale 1010
Number of Holdings 102
Number of +5 Holdings 16

Bulk Food 1513
Bulk Ore 1081
Bulk Stone 1082
Bulk Wood 1081
Trade Goods 864
Coin 1250
Bulk Goods lost to holding upkeep 9632
Quijenoth Starkiller Viceroy of Callambea
Company Leader of Beyond the Grave - www.beyond-pfo.com
Crafting Planner
Quijenoth Starkiller
Takasi
Last I remember they hadn't really decided.

+24 per upgrade

Thanks - so thats +8 DI per upgrade roughly to each - that will bring the number of holdings down quite a bit but will make influence more of an issue in the calculations (probably a good thing)

maths wise your looking at dividing the number of holdings by 5 roughly if you went for all +5 holdings. - gonna jiggle my calculator a bit…

edit: adjusted it for the last example - I was wrong, the cost on influence actually goes down if you go with +5s instead of lots of +0s, your basically getting +40 DI per category for each +5 holding so that drops the last example down to 16 +5 holdings. the increase is in bulk - each holding goes from 2 bulk to 29+29+28, so in the above example your upkeep for holdings per day goes from 204 for +0 holdings to 1,376 for +5 holdings.
Quijenoth Starkiller Viceroy of Callambea
Company Leader of Beyond the Grave - www.beyond-pfo.com
Crafting Planner
arty155jln
Quijenoth
I know I'm probably on the losing side on this argument, after all we all like nice shiny things… If someone gave you a supercar to drive to work for a week for free and said they would pick it up, if they didn't turn up who wouldn't continue driving it to work for the following week smile

PFO is a unique case, its not like other MMOs where they released a new boss with a glitch that let you kill it with 1 person instead of a full raid, sure there getting nice loot earlier than the rest but in the end the bar will raise and those items will lose value. In PFO its about creating a living breathing community and economy and T3 is the raid loot, if its value diminishes there's nothing around to replace it.
I hope that T3 is the norm, and personally I dislike how long it currently is planned to take for me to make it to T3; but I'm not asking for that to change. I believe in getting to max rank/level/skill as fast as possible so then the true fun of siege fighting can begin. I don't follow the majority trend of always dangling new gear in front of me as a carrot; I make the next persons settlement my own carrot.

Where I completely agree with you is here "creating a living breathing community and economy". Where I disagree is that T3 has to be the place where economy happens. Your base economy should be about the T1 goods/services that are for the masses. I don't believe that everyone being in T3 gear is going to devalue that gear; player gear of the T3 level is like a top tiered Battleship in EvE, easily attainable for the average player. We need other gear, like siege equipment, that are the company focused gear, like the cap ships/titans in EvE.

After reading both sides of the discussion, I would like to see the no cap on the current system, so we can see how easy or hard it is to maintain settlements. As the game grows we can analyze the effort increase/decrease that settlements go through with the population growth.
Doc
"In PFO its about creating a living breathing community and economy and T3 is the raid loot, if its value diminishes there's nothing around to replace it."

All the more reason why it seems obvious to me why the game would need to be wiped at one level or another (whether that is just a new land rush, removing inventories, or complete wipe, I dunno) in order for the game to be to attract a viable amount of new players. Otherwise PFO will just be a microcosm of the USA economy with like 80% of the wealth and power projection controlled by 1% of the players.
Edam
arty155jln
I don't believe that everyone being in T3 gear is going to devalue that gear; player gear of the T3 level is like a top tiered Battleship in EvE, easily attainable for the average player. We need other gear, like siege equipment, that are the company focused gear, like the cap ships/titans in EvE.

Except battleships in Eve are kind of useless and stacks of people rat in privately owned carriers but yeah all in all a good point.
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Well as I am finding arty, my impression now is that T1 seems to exist solely as a stepping stone to get into T2. Once you get to T2, T1 is worthless.

T2 I think should be the gear level for the masses, but what it depends on is the power curve between the Tiers. Even in EVE for example a battleship or even a titan can be defeated by a well coordinated fleet of various other types of ships. You can look up youtube videos to see where it has happened and how they did it. With those smaller ships ya got speed tanking for example which can easily make those little guys viable in any combat. If you can't hit em ya can't kill em. All the different classes of ships have upsides and downsides to em and any of em can make an impact.

None of that stuff exists in PFO. There aren't any viable tactics for a bunch of T1 guys do defend themselves or mitigate any weaknesses they would face fighting a T2 unless there are a lot of T1 guys. I don't know if the same is true with T3 vs. T2. There's no downside to using T2 over T1. If T3 is too easy to obtain or maintain there will be no reason to use T2 except as a long wait you just have to endure to get to T3.

Everyone basically will have to endure the lower peon gear for who knows how long until you can get the elite endgame gear which is where the REAL game begins. Since this game is passive xp instead of the grind like in Albion Online (which also has Tiered Gear up to six) there is no way to speed it up and you're basically SOL for like what, at least year or something?

That would be a flawed game mechanic, one that a wipe won't fix. A wipe would reset the power level for now but it would just delay the inevitable.

Either make T1 and T2 more viable in PvP in their own ways (in other words, give all three tiers stuff that the others won't have so people have a reason to use them), or have T3 gear rare and easy to lose. T3 should only be for when shit gets real, not the norm.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of Aragon Alliance and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Bringslite
Paddy
"There aren't any viable tactics for a bunch of T1 guys do defend themselves or mitigate any weaknesses they would face fighting a T2 unless there are a lot of T1 guys."

There is diplomacy.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Tigari
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Well as I am finding arty, my impression now is that T1 seems to exist solely as a stepping stone to get into T2. Once you get to T2, T1 is worthless.

T2 I think should be the gear level for the masses, but what it depends on is the power curve between the Tiers. Even in EVE for example a battleship or even a titan can be defeated by a well coordinated fleet of various other types of ships. You can look up youtube videos to see where it has happened and how they did it. With those smaller ships ya got speed tanking for example which can easily make those little guys viable in any combat. If you can't hit em ya can't kill em. All the different classes of ships have upsides and downsides to em and any of em can make an impact.

None of that stuff exists in PFO. There aren't any viable tactics for a bunch of T1 guys do defend themselves or mitigate any weaknesses they would face fighting a T2 unless there are a lot of T1 guys. I don't know if the same is true with T3 vs. T2. There's no downside to using T2 over T1. If T3 is too easy to obtain or maintain there will be no reason to use T2 except as a long wait you just have to endure to get to T3.

Everyone basically will have to endure the lower peon gear for who knows how long until you can get the elite endgame gear which is where the REAL game begins. Since this game is passive xp instead of the grind like in Albion Online (which also has Tiered Gear up to six) there is no way to speed it up and you're basically SOL for like what, at least year or something?

That would be a flawed game mechanic, one that a wipe won't fix. A wipe would reset the power level for now but it would just delay the inevitable.

Either make T1 and T2 more viable in PvP in their own ways (in other words, give all three tiers stuff that the others won't have so people have a reason to use them), or have T3 gear rare and easy to lose. T3 should only be for when shit gets real, not the norm.

While I'd take a T2 over a T1 character many day, T1's still have some use. Their great at spamming one ability, to try to maintain an effect for others to trigger off of. Now, a T2 group should beat a T1 group every time, but it isn't impossible for the T1 group to still do dmg.

Think of it like this, if a full group of T1 guys die to a group of T2, but the T1 guys managed to kill just 2 of them, I'd say the T1 group actually won the trade off (assuming it was just gearloss, and no inventorys. Assume the T2 guys are farming, and get bum rushed during a pull by T1 guys, and you only get 2 of the T2 guys go down, that's s great victory for T1, as some items went Poof on death. Now the T1 may not have gained anything, but if your going into combat on t1, gain probably isn't your goal as much as enemy loss.
Edam
The downside to T2 and T3 gear was meant to be threading and the fact if you died some of your bling gear would drop in the husk and be lootable by the ne'er-do-well banditry types.

Lack of threading (like lack of ammo, clerics really should be consuming charges when they spam stuff) goes a long way to explain oddities in the current game balance.
Quijenoth Starkiller
We are all in agreement that there are a lot of pieces to the PFO puzzle that are missing and its the sum of those things which makes us question what needs to be what.

I have thought about all the issues like those posted above but the simplest option in my mind is to simply put a halt on T3 until the game is ready for it.

GW had a plan that by the time we where learning T3 they would have the mechanics and art to introduce T3, that didn't happen as planned and its still not on the horizon.

@ Bringslite, diplomacy has never really been a strongpoint of the PFO community now has it smile plus (different topic) I feel diplomacy needs to be a feature of the game more (stand and deliver) but lets not discuss it further here.
Quijenoth Starkiller Viceroy of Callambea
Company Leader of Beyond the Grave - www.beyond-pfo.com
Crafting Planner
 
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