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Give strip harvested hexes a chance of regrowth

Caldeathe Baequiannia
It's getting used in separate ways, depending on what I'm addressing at the moment. We have no right either literally in game, or philosophically out of game, to control those hexes, so no right at all to ask the devs for assistance in controlling them.

You are pretending to have a right you can't enforce, and seeking to have the devs make it so you can enforce the pretend right. I'm of the opinion that the devs should never introduce anything that lets anyone pretend they have control over a monster hex for any period of time. It is the wildest frontier in the game, and should always be that way. If you are present and prepared to kill someone for gathering, the game gives you that capacity. If you feel you have a strong enough case for war, you have that an incomplete game and a source of frustration. The fact that the game is in a more incomplete state, and has been for a longer period of time, than was intended is leading to stress for lots of people. That doesn't make it okay to lobby for ways to punish people for strip mining monster hexes. They belong to whoever has the power in the hex right now.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Takasi
Duffy Swiftshadow
Some of it has to do with the specific activity that triggered the discussion, some of it is very generic. I agree a lot of the examples have been super specific about trying to solve the problem by messing directly with how the hexes in question work and maybe that type of thing should be off the table (I think so personally), but that doesn't invalidate the concept that conflict resolution is woefully lacking in most areas.

The issue I have is that if a person wants to PvE or PvP he needs gear, thus he needs a gatherer to get mats.

What does a gatherer need from anyone?

They don't need facility ratings, they don't need gear, they don't need to worry about what anyone else is doing on the map, including holdings or reputation. They are just as capable at damaging the land no matter what anyone else does yet their activity directly impacts everyone else's ability to regear.

This is why I want gathering tied to escalations, strength score, holding control or anything that forces gatherers to be brought into the fold of interdependence of other playstyles. At the very least gathering should require gear (outside of shield hexes). I would even prefer that gathering gear can't be obtained through gathering alone by requiring mats from PvE (victory markers) or PvP risk (bulk resources).

Everyone else is at the mercy of a gatherer. Does anyone think it would be fair if mobs (or even players) dropped wearable T2 or T3 gear? If you think it's fair that PvE and PvP should be at the mercy of gatherers then why is it unfair for gatherers to be at the same mercy of PvE or PvP?
Paddy Fitzpatrick
@Bringslite

We pretty much sai d the same thing, sorry, didn't see you post first :-P

@tribuzio

In fairness I don't think arty was saying that this would be the ONLY way to get resources. I would think you'd have the PvP mines AND the usual gathering and crafting too. It's just two options to do it. It would be nice to be able to tell new guys in my group that no, you don't in fact need a dedicated crafter for a second account! You can use your main room to fight for resources to help our crafters! You can decide to be either or if you want.

I always feel like I gotta have more and more accounts just to keep pace in this game. Having a few alts is one thing but it feels like I'm missing out if I don't got a ton of toons.

So giving PvPers ways to help out the crafter's and gatherers by doing what they do.best is a great idea I think.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of Aragon Alliance and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Paddy Fitzpatrick
The only issues is, for PFO, unlike EVE, you can't kill a settlement.
Yet. The game is not finished. It is intended that settlements be over-run and destroyed on a semi-regular basis.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
arty155jln
tribuzio
arty155jln
We shouldn't be trying to come up with new ideas, instead incorporate ideas from previous games that have a proven track record. In this case Mine Fights from Shadowbane. Every day there is a 2 hour window that the owning company/settlement sets for all of its 3rd building types. When that window is open, similar to the current outpost/holding window, then these mine/harvesting buildings can be attacked. The mechanic could be that if it's attacked and taken down that the building doesn't harvest for 22 hours. Or it could be that when fought over, the building could be captured by another company/settlement. The number of hexes away from the owning settlement would decrease the efficiency of the mine/harvesting building; for example within 4 hexes no penalty, but between 5-10 hexes you get 75% efficiency, between 11-20 hexes away you get 50% efficiency, and anything over 21 hexes you only get 25% efficiency. This encourages settlements to stay close to home to get higher volume of goods, but still allows a settlement in need of a specific good to go out and fight for that good.

That idea has a very bad effect: it make whoever don't play in that 2 hour window a unwanted player.
That lead to single timezone groups or some people being second class citizens.
What I think you are missing is that the 2 hour window is not dictated by GW/PFO, but set by the company based on their players play time.

In practice I haven't felt that it is bad, but I understand the sentiment and warning in your words. I had suggested that it was company based, and not settlement based. Meaning, every company(this use to say settlement) could assign their 2 hour window to be at very different times. This gives the advantage to the defender, which is generally considered good game design, by allowing the defending company to pick the time that their players mostly log in. This actually benefits players from say Australia/New Zealand or Europe on differing time tables as North America.

If you wanted a more flexible way to conquer these mine/harvest buildings, then you could do the same thing that EvE does with POSs; when the building is attacked it goes into a sleep mode, and the defenders have 24 hours to choose a war window in which to defend the building. This then gives those off-peak players even more incentive to play and help protect against the dreaded "midnight raiders".
tribuzio
Bringslite
His calling out that Bulk Resources, their moving, and their attraction to bandit types (the whole reason we are forced to move them) as a lame duck mechanic IS SPOT ON and needs fixing in the worst way. Extinction style fixing! smile Bandits want coin, spells, recipes, maneuvers, and useful crafting mats (more like CRAFTED ITEMS). They don't want bulk resources that are bulky and of dubious value.

You share that problem with RL bandits. And still someone hijack bulk transports in RL.
arty155jln
Paddy Fitzpatrick
@arty

You got a lot of good stuff, probably some of the best ideas so far.
…stuff…

As for the PvP mines and everything else you said, I think it's spot on!
Thanks Paddy, I appreciate that. I want to say here that Duffy has challenged my thinking in a good way today, and honestly isn't that what the crowdforging is about. We hash out ideas until we come up with something good for the community.

In all fairness, none of these ideas are unique, they are all borrowed concepts from existing games. I am an advocate of asset destruction mechanics in games, so it's why I bring them up so much. But again, I do believe the game needs to broaden it's approach to incorporate fun at all levels of play.
tribuzio
Paddy Fitzpatrick
@Bringslite

We pretty much sai d the same thing, sorry, didn't see you post first :-P

@tribuzio

In fairness I don't think arty was saying that this would be the ONLY way to get resources. I would think you'd have the PvP mines AND the usual gathering and crafting too. It's just two options to do it. It would be nice to be able to tell new guys in my group that no, you don't in fact need a dedicated crafter for a second account! You can use your main room to fight for resources to help our crafters! You can decide to be either or if you want.

I always feel like I gotta have more and more accounts just to keep pace in this game. Having a few alts is one thing but it feels like I'm missing out if I don't got a ton of toons.

So giving PvPers ways to help out the crafter's and gatherers by doing what they do.best is a great idea I think.

I get that, he only want to remove the interdependence between PvP and PvE. To me that seem worse that making hsi way the only way to get resources.
tribuzio
arty155jln
tribuzio
arty155jln
We shouldn't be trying to come up with new ideas, instead incorporate ideas from previous games that have a proven track record. In this case Mine Fights from Shadowbane. Every day there is a 2 hour window that the owning company/settlement sets for all of its 3rd building types. When that window is open, similar to the current outpost/holding window, then these mine/harvesting buildings can be attacked. The mechanic could be that if it's attacked and taken down that the building doesn't harvest for 22 hours. Or it could be that when fought over, the building could be captured by another company/settlement. The number of hexes away from the owning settlement would decrease the efficiency of the mine/harvesting building; for example within 4 hexes no penalty, but between 5-10 hexes you get 75% efficiency, between 11-20 hexes away you get 50% efficiency, and anything over 21 hexes you only get 25% efficiency. This encourages settlements to stay close to home to get higher volume of goods, but still allows a settlement in need of a specific good to go out and fight for that good.

That idea has a very bad effect: it make whoever don't play in that 2 hour window a unwanted player.
That lead to single timezone groups or some people being second class citizens.
What I think you are missing is that the 2 hour window is not dictated by GW/PFO, but set by the company based on their players play time.

In practice I haven't felt that it is bad, but I understand the sentiment and warning in your words. I had suggested that it was company based, and not settlement based. Meaning, every settlement could assign their 2 hour window to be at very different times. This gives the advantage to the defender, which is generally considered good game design, by allowing the defending company to pick the time that their players mostly log in. This actually benefits players from say Australia/New Zealand or Europe on differing time tables as North America.

If you wanted a more flexible way to conquer these mine/harvest buildings, then you could do the same thing that EvE does with POSs; when the building is attacked it goes into a sleep mode, and the defenders have 24 hours to choose a war window in which to defend the building. This then gives those off-peak players even more incentive to play and help protect against the dreaded "midnight raiders".

And I feel that what you are missing is "it make whoever don't play in that 2 hour window a unwanted player". As soon as a company has chosen that window people that don't log in at that time of the day aren't helping defending the resources. And that make people second class citizens.
Even if no one made a fuss, I already felt it during the forever war. You can participate to a battle at 6 AM once o twice, but if you work it can't become an habit. Even if everyone is ok with you not taking part in the battle it put you outside the group.

Maybe I was burned by EVE and "we will start the attack on the enemy POS at 22 (for my timezone), Oh wait, we actuality start to move past midnight and get to the target after 1 AM. It is 2 AM and tomorrow you have to go to work? You can go back home by yourself or log off in the enemy system. You don't have contributed meaningfully to the battle."
I don't want to see that kind of stuff repeated in PFO.
arty155jln
tribuzio
Paddy Fitzpatrick
@Bringslite

We pretty much sai d the same thing, sorry, didn't see you post first :-P

@tribuzio

In fairness I don't think arty was saying that this would be the ONLY way to get resources. I would think you'd have the PvP mines AND the usual gathering and crafting too. It's just two options to do it. It would be nice to be able to tell new guys in my group that no, you don't in fact need a dedicated crafter for a second account! You can use your main room to fight for resources to help our crafters! You can decide to be either or if you want.

I always feel like I gotta have more and more accounts just to keep pace in this game. Having a few alts is one thing but it feels like I'm missing out if I don't got a ton of toons.

So giving PvPers ways to help out the crafter's and gatherers by doing what they do.best is a great idea I think.

I get that, he only want to remove the interdependence between PvP and PvE. To me that seem worse that making hsi way the only way to get resources.
In a way I had thought about that, but never spelled it out. We need that interdependence, but we don't have to keep all our eggs in one basket. There are some players who will play this game to only log in to that 2 hour window for PvP, and will not care about what they win in the form of materials; yet the game would be better from their sub support. The way we maintain interdependence is by limiting the amount of materials that can be acquired from the mine/harvesting buildings. This should not be the main source of materials, but it should be a valid way for PvPers to supplement company materials.
 
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