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Who is Still REALLY trying?

Paddy Fitzpatrick
I hope this ain't too crass to say it, but seriously this is where a friend's list would really help with keeping in touch and for new players to feel connected.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Huran
Paddy Fitzpatrick
I hope this ain't too crass to say it, but seriously this is where a friend's list would really help with keeping in touch and for new players to feel connected.

+1

A friends list/chat so we don't have to ask new players to go to an external site for getting to know them would be greatly helpful for everyone.
"Circles of power, gathered by EARTH, welcomed by GOLD, in strife and in mirth. Focused by CRYSTAL, guided by LIGHT, showing the way, by day and by night. wrought in IRON, strengthened by STEEL, together we stand, in wrack and in weal. Hidden in SHADOW, explored by WOOD, we circle together, for the greater good." –Maxikyd– http://www.kotcguild.com/
Midnight
EoX is still trying, but plays more games than just PFO while waiting to hear from NewCorp.

We have a few players who play PFO every day, as well as a lot of players who would show up if needed, but prefer other games until the layoff/acquisition crisis is resolved.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Smitty
Midnight
EoX is still trying, but plays more games than just PFO while waiting to hear from NewCorp.

We have a few players who play PFO every day, as well as a lot of players who would show up if needed, but prefer other games until the layoff/acquisition crisis is resolved.

As far as recruitment.. If someone makes it too xeilias.com or callambea pages and registers .. I usually say hello on their recruitment page, try to get in contact with them on TS.. find out what kind of character they want to play and throw some t1 +2 gear in the cooker for them.
Do I actively spam messages in general? Nope.. I do send whispers to folks that ask questions .. particularly if they are asking PvP type questions.. or if they ask generic ones and no one else responds with in a minute or so..

Will I talk with players interested in EoX if they are referred to me ? Sure! But the players we normally attract will not sub until the game gets a dev team and funding.. Quite a few of them really like the ideas behind the game, but aren’t vested in it and see no reason to become so until the financial / development questions are answered..

To that all I can say is we are dealing with 4 different groups of people all with lawyers that have to agree on the placement of every single coma in a contract..
Nactillius
PFU is still kicking around and there are a few of us that get on semi-regularly. We do our best to help out any that show up in our mumble or in chat when we are about but there are some big voids in our schedules. For those that want to get into the thick of it we point out those groups that are more active. Hopefully there is good news soon and everyone's membership get back on.
gbdisque
From a rather new person's perspective (3 weeks), I would have given up after the first two weeks of free game-time if I hadn't found the group I'm in now. This is a challenging game when trying to figure out the mechanics and it is almost impossible to really enjoy playing without the aid of a company and settlement. I, for one, appreciate the time and effort the group took to get me up and running: gear, tips and guidance. Regardless of the outcome with Newcorp; I have enjoyed my time playing thus far thanks to a few folks willing to help. I applaud all of you for doing the same.
Bringslite
gbdisque
From a rather new person's perspective (3 weeks), I would have given up after the first two weeks of free game-time if I hadn't found the group I'm in now. This is a challenging game when trying to figure out the mechanics and it is almost impossible to really enjoy playing without the aid of a company and settlement. I, for one, appreciate the time and effort the group took to get me up and running: gear, tips and guidance. Regardless of the outcome with Newcorp; I have enjoyed my time playing thus far thanks to a few folks willing to help. I applaud all of you for doing the same.

^^^Posts like that make me 3x more enthused to help people.^^^
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Cogswerth
As I sit hear reading these posts I think while I won't know what drives away other people from this game I can only state what would … well is driving me away.

Mind you I enjoyed the tabletop RPG and some of the Pathfinder Society Organized Play. I think the world setting of the Table-top RPG is rich with cultures & story and all the polish a well flushed out campaign setting has. And I want to see this video game be entertaining and prosper.

When the kickstarter was active I read thoroughly the info about it with anticipation 'til I saw they planned to throw out the mechanics of the RPG and replace it with thier own. I thought back then, no point in contributing I probably won't bother to play. This remindes me of all the bad stuff EVE's gameplay had.

Every time some company tried to produce a video game or online video game of D & D (Pathfinder is often referred to as D&D version 3.75) they altered or left out the game mechanics. In my opinion the best of the home computer games was the temple of Elemental Evil. (but its movement system was quirky/buggy based on gridless movement system that didn't allow taking turns during movement, didn't allow custom magic item construction, ignored basic item construction… ) The best of the online D&D games was DDO. (But it too had its mechanics butchered, no artificer class, item crafting was not by the tabletop rules, no solo player content beyond tutorial levels and so on… )

Those experiences were like sitting down in a diner, ordering a hamburger, biting into it and finding tofu instead of beef.

Remember that horrible D&D movie a few years or so back? All that source material to draw from and they produce that crap.

That is the disappointment I experienced when I read about this game.

So it all boils down to brand recognition & expectations of said brand. In this case I expect the game mechanics, the artwork and the world setting. The mechanics of this MMO irritate me like somebody who doesn't know how to speak this language would imitate it and try to fake it; no words just gutteral noises & grunts. The artwork is close enough that I have no serious complaints. (mind you I haven't see alot of it yet.) The world setting I honestly don't know enough yet to judge effectively.

Ok now that I beaten this point like a dead horse, reanimated it as a skeleton, beat it down again to dust, used the bone dust laden clay to craft a bone clay golem horse then beat that to death, I will try to explain myself further and try to get away from the mechanics.

Time passed since I checked on the progress of this game. So I visit the goblinworks site I see the offer of the 15 day trial and the mentions of open enrollment. This "open enrollment" term confused me as I associate it with the beta testing process. So I wonder to myself is this game out of beta yet?

So I flip back and forth between websites trying to figure out how the stuff was implemented & learning about the game watching youtube let's plays/first impressions (There isn't many and they don't seem that they were done well …professionally. But mostly they looked like they were done during the beta because the words "open enrollment" showed on the gameplay screen itself.) Then I run into a professional website's review & another site's news. I learn that the game has been released and the staff have all been layed off except 3 of them.

At this point my expectations of this game are really low. I figure I'll get some sleep and think about it playing it another day. After all Eve & Algagon did have some good points. (and big bad ones that caused me to drop them)

The next day I try to download the game without registering so I can save 4 hours or so of trial time. (The old days when downloads took along time. I remember everquest one taking 20 hours or so to download then failing at the 99% mark.) Wasted more time trying to find where the download link was than I did downloading the program. (The download was behind the registration gate.) I also try to confirm my computer has the specs to handle it. The website under FAQ's does not include the system specs required to run it. (The FAQ's makes the game sound like it's still in beta) Another 5 to 10 minutes wasted looking for that info.

So I get the program running and log in and go to the character creation screen. I notice there is only 3 races like in the early videos. I think to myself this game isn't done yet. *shrug* I might as well keep on pluggin' away. So I think to myself what type of character do I want to play? I figure dwarf and I try to do the figher/forge preist (dwarven racial cleric archtype from the Advanced Race Guide) route from the Kopparberget region. So I try to make the character look nordic. No such luck. The character generation program seems to assign an african appearance to the dwarf and no amount of selection changes seems to let me build the dwarf of Ulfenlike appearence one would expect from that area. To have a 'fro or be shaved bald in the cold artic zone? Buzz… Bald dwarf.

So I actually go play now. I see ghostly words Open Enrollment showing on the screen. They want a monthly subscription for this? *shrug* I think "keep going ignore it for now".

I see an npc and use the mmo movement standard of asdw and try clicking on the how to move tutorial npc & start her quest.

I take a moment to turn off the off the music even at 20% it is too loud. And while I was at it I set the game to full screen & change the resolution settings of the game to match my display and go from windowed to full screen mode. This off course not only causes my gui to shift mostly off the edge of the screen but also messes with how the cursor is displayed. This display shift caused the cursor to show aim a quarter inch lower than it appears to onscreen. This made trying to readjust the hotbars to where they should be (via the gui commands) to be extreamly frustrating. I would be like "why isn't this command button working!" I'd alternate between trying to fix the gui and trying to do the tutorial because well one of the youtube videos mentioned if you quit a quest part way through you can't restart it. After a while like 10 minutes or so I manage to figure out that the mouse cursor is mispointing and decide to risk the glitch and shut down the game and restart hoping the stuff realigns.

Well I am reminded that the login screen doesn't function as you would expect other data entry fields on my computer. For example tab & shift + tab don't switch between name and password entry spaces. Ctrl + C doesn't place the partial password in my clipboard into the password space. So I have to alt + tab out to get the password and memorize it, fail try again, fail. (I like complex big non-word passwords) Mind you in full screen mode when you alt tab out it doesn't switch easily back in. You alt tab back in & no shift. You left click back on the program in the task bar and the program doesn't get shown. You right click on the tab in the taskbar and select the option Pathfinder online and instead of switching back to the game you start up another instance of the game. Thus I was forced to memorize the code. Each time I fail to get it right I had to restart the game.

Sucessfully logging back in I find that the game's gui is back in place & mouse target's the right spot.

Back to the game. I meander around a harvesting some nodes trying to avoid combat (since the first couple of fights seemed to provide no loot nor the option to search the corpse) and trying to learn the system. I manage to make my way into the nearby settlement. The settlement tutorial guy seemed to do nothing for me when I clicked on him repletedly (partially because the name labels appear only when you click on them.) I fire off a quick question I eventually give up and go off to harvest some nodes for a bit. Then a helpful person suggests I try clicking on him from a different angle because he may be obscured by an invisible hitbox from another item. I make a note to do so later. (spoiler it fails) That person also informs me about auto looting.

(of course I almost forgot to mention the getting hit by NPC's with melee attacks at like ten paces.)

I ran into the figher tutorial guy and did a little of his quest line while node harvesting. I eventually run into a 3 pack of merc recruits which I figure I could handle since I already just took out a 3 pack which had a merc and two recruits. When I advanced the character refused to draw his sword (which was equipped in the primary slot and undamaged) & after getting beat on til 2/3's health I try to run away. Pointless. Trees do not screen arrows and I couldn't get to a guard in time. This was my first character death, I dropped all non equipped stuff. I quickly recovered the 3/4 that was on the death spot. This was before I had found where the bank was. (and was hitting the red encumbrance… 51% part of my carry limit. I also had some feats that increased my carry capacity)

Losing that stuff to this bug was angering. (hitting ragequit levels)

I try some crafting stuff for a bit meandering around the settlement buying a bunch of noncombat stuff 25xp and down and get to the 500 mark or so and make a hard choice and buy only weaponsmithing 1. buy more cheap skills till I am out of xp and realize that they weren't all passive and that some of them conflicted with each other in that they can't all be put in the role and armor training slot.

*shrug* *grumble grumble*

I try to craft using the nifty looking tool benches and couldn't get any of them to work. Eventually I remember that the doors can be clicked on to enter workshops. (from one youtube video.)

I find the crafting tutorial guy finally. He sets me off on the tour de crafting of de settlement. This kinda explains why all the other crafting tutorial NPC's were silent. Unfortunately this chain is set up such if you do a step early it does not credit it. Forexample the guy said this other guy wants wool for yarn balls. I go and make yarn balls. I go make the yarn balls and go visit the guy. Nope he wants them made now not a few minutes ago. Same with the step with the mittens those took 10 minutes for a pair. (I have a pair and nothing to do with them.) They don't even show up on the character when worn & the icon for it appears to be a question mark. I finish that quest line, and I don't even know what I got for doing it. Some of these npc's during the tour also tell you to ask them if you want to have a tutorial involving thier specialty. For example the settlement tutorial guy says something along those lines and well doesn't talk further if you click on him later.

*shrug*

So now I am meandering back and forth from workshop to workshop trying to figure out how I am supposed to make a shield, well with my skill level a wooden buckler. So I decide to log out and do reasearch via the wiki (which is not complete enough to answer how) then via the forumns which seems incomplete also. The downloadable guide is also incomplete as it lacks the requirements for wood buckler. It dawns on me that not only do I not know where all the nodes are to get the materials I need to make my buckler but also I don't know which node types I need to search and since I spent so many experince points in gathering/crafting that I won't have the firepower to wander far enough away to get to the nodes even if I knew where they were. But worse yet is I could very well need level 4 or 5 in more then one crafting skill to make the parts to make the item I need to go out there in the first place. And I won't know how much xp I'll waste or time waiting for it. I suppose I could scrounge for coppers & buy stuff but with the not draw weapon bug + death loss mechanic I don't even want to try grinding combat unequipped let alone equipted.

I don't want to bother to do any more research on the game for stuff I would expect to see on tooltips from a completed game. Yet I did.

I have to figure out where to get/how to make/or substitute all the mats not only for the basic starter gear stuff I was given but have the right skills to make the stuff. And ultimately to make the stuff the newbie pack issues takes what, five or seven levels in most crafting disciplines? Just so I can replace my stuff lost to pve deaths. And possibly via pvp?(I suspect it is just as brutal as Pve loss.) How many weeks worth of xp will those skills take to get? Probably longer than my trial will be. (It seems durability loss on items is only 1 point per death, so 20 deaths = item loss unless the %25 looting snags an unequipped item.)

This game is not complete. I won't pay for a game that displays the immersion shattering "open enrollment" blazened on the screen and even without that big ol reminder, even with all the bugs I experienced, the poor documentation I plugged on trying to find a reason to enjoy this game.

Node's long harvesting times grated on me. (When Fallen Earth went F2P they increased the node harvesting time. I retried it since it went F2P and the increased harvest times was one of the big reasons for not going back. I originally dropped the game near initial release date because its servers couldn't handle the player load.)

Predator like stealth mode… still stealthed but why is my guy running while stealthed is this a bug? (or am I getting hit with a -20 run while stealthed check penalty?)

NPC's Melee strike from like 10 ingame paces away. How?

Guided cover penetrating arrows.

With the way xp is time based accreument I began to think I would be better off waiting to get enough xp to try crafting again. Then I thought no point in waiting so I logged out.

I logged in the next day and decided to try gathering materials I explored a dozen or so hexs and failed to find any coal nodes. I got back to town after meandering around for a few hours and thought what was the point even if I do find it? I won't be able to craft anything better than I was given for a long time.

The settlement building aspect of the game intrigues me. While exploring looking for coal I ran into a couple of Player owned buildings, an Inn and a shed/vault. The building wouldn't let me in, the NPC's wouldn't let me interact with them (as probably per the player that placed them) And every so often a green number would popup over my head. An icon with a count down timer stated a battle would occur there in a little under 4 hours. Thinking my uninvited presense was triggering a capture settlement type of event I left it.
13 days of trial time left unplayed. Game uninstalled.
I am trying to be honest about my posted opinion. I'd like to think I gave this game a fair chance. During play I only saw on person outside of the newbie settlements and like 5 total in the settlement. The game feels dead.

Supposedly Diablo 3 was rebuilt from the ground up before release. I think this game needs to be rebuilt.

I'd probably be better off getting d20 fantasy battlegrounds and do a LFG post there than bothering with this game.

(post edited to remove uninteded emoticons)
Thod-Theodum
@Cogswerth
Thanks for the time spend on this long write-up. I hope it will help GW. Starting the game is still the biggest hurdle in my view. This has improved a lot - but it seems not enough by far.
What needs to be done? Surely something to give a player more quickly an idea what to expect. The game offers a lot of possibilities - but it means you are lost if you just drop in an play on your own. The game is deliberately build in a way that you don't craft/make everything yourself. You quote D&D/Pathfinder tabletop - how many of your characters ever crafted their sword/armour etc. themselves.
But the game fails to tell you how to get hold of what you don't have. You did gathering - this should allow you in relative safety to gather some materials - sell them on the auction house nearby and get at least basic equipment even if you lose it.
What the game fails is -
1) to tell a new player this is how it is expected to work - don't try to craft all yourself
2) where to gather something worthwhile to sell
3) a working economy (other players buying)
4) introduction to companies which help provide you with everything (often for new players for free)
5) more in-game help again - the Pathfinder university was fantastic at it's high time to help/teach players to plaster over the gaps

Maybe the new company on the horizon has finally the manpower helping here. The game isn't appealing for a new player who tried to find everything out on his own - sadly.
Thod/Theodum are the OOC/IC leaders of the Emerald Lodge - a neutral settlement in the center of the mal that tries to the first to explore the Emerald Spire - should that part of the game ever become available. We have a strong in game and out of game relationship with the Pathfinder Society.
We welcome both hard core players as well as casual players with or without tabletop experience. We have a strong group in Europe and are slowly expanding into the US. We are predominately PvE as our neutral political stance means that we tend to use PvP only in self-defence. We are not anti-PVP - but expect limited PvP opportunity with us.
Decius
thats the best write up I've seen from a failed conversion. Thanks for taking the time for that.

Give that using any d20 systems is simply out of the question, what would have caused you to play again? Would narrated video tutorials of the crafting system have helped any, or an explanation of the intended economic structure?
 
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