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Some Questions to Spark Forum Activity

Caldeathe Baequiannia
The whole point was for it to keep certain players away. I think the important question is whether the people it's keeping away are those intended, or if it over-reached and is interfering with others.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Midnight
We're a self selected group of people who either like hierarchy or (like me) at least find it an interesting/compelling idea for a game.

There is no way that I would want to see ALL games have this kind of hierarchical approval of other players to advance your character, though. The fact that I was willing to give it a go as my main game, even surprises me.
Something, something, incomplete mechanisms, something, something.

We are promised charters that specify the method by which settlements are controlled and by which that control is changed. Those are not yet implemented. I'm hoping (sooner, rather than later) for everything from Totalitarian despots where Phyllain tells us when to go to the bathroom, to Athenian democracies where if you let someone into your settlement, they get a vote on bathroom breaks.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Duffy Swiftshadow
Rearranging a few mechanics such as moving influence to the settlement level (at least for territory control and wars) and basing it's limits/growth on settlement construction and bulk resource payments while adding factions for non-settlement inclined players could solve some of the potential hierarchical problems.

Stuff like that will get rid of hostile recruitment tactics (well significantly lowers the rewards for it) and allows folks to avoid settlement politics if they want to and focus on individual or small group activities. As for those folks hanging out exclusively in factions, they will be a group someone is going to want to cater training to as it financially benefits them to do so.

Something to keep in mind too, EVE is at least one successful game that has entire swaths of game-play only really doable by large organized groups. Sure you can train to fly some of those super cap ships or build the bigger stations on your own theoretically, but realistically using one or getting a hold of one requires the large group hierarchy working towards the common goals. The big difference in PFO is that the training might be blocked a bit, but part of that design is to curb excessive negative behavior and encourage players to actually RP or hopefully use potential mechanics like Disguise or Bluff to get around it.
Midnight
@Duffy
I've played Eve and LIKE the social aspects of Sov wars. But the game's financial success may be partly due to the fact that there are no sticks coercing you into sov space. Just carrots. Sov wars are easily skipped by those with no interest, or who (like me sometimes) can't devote the time to it. But the points where you need to work with others to (practically) manifest the next level of power (titans/supercaps/stations) occur a lot later (often years later) than they do here. In PFO you probably want settlement training in month 2.

Also, I'd like to be clear I'm not arguing for lone wolf play. But the number of settlements are the limit to your viable choices of social structures, and the fact that a guild (like TSV, Cheatle's guild, my own guild, etc.) controls multiple settlements only serves to narrow the actual choices a new player has.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Midnight
Caldeathe Baequiannia
The whole point was for it to keep certain players away. I think the important question is whether the people it's keeping away are those intended, or if it over-reached and is interfering with others.

I'd love to poll people who tried the game and left, as well as people who looked into the game before deciding against it. I can't figure a practical way to accomplish that, though.

It could be we're debating all the wrong issues and it really is all about the grass.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Bringslite
Midnight
Caldeathe Baequiannia
The whole point was for it to keep certain players away. I think the important question is whether the people it's keeping away are those intended, or if it over-reached and is interfering with others.

I'd love to poll people who tried the game and left, as well as people who looked into the game before deciding against it. I can't figure a practical way to accomplish that, though.

It could be we're debating all the wrong issues and it really is all about the grass.

From reading what anyone has written here or other gaming sites, both reputable reviewers and average Joe Player reports, what you are talking about as a deal breaker is almost non existent. It might be non existent. I think that it is more "all about the grass", as you write, than even minutely about this aspect of your concerns. You could as easily say that the main enemy of paying subscribers is the difficulty to figure out what to do or how to play(controls, leveling, etc…smile

Still it is hard to say anything concrete without data and nothing but speculation. What kind of game can you make if you homogenize out everything that might displease a few players here or there?
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Midnight
Bringslite
Midnight
Caldeathe Baequiannia
The whole point was for it to keep certain players away. I think the important question is whether the people it's keeping away are those intended, or if it over-reached and is interfering with others.

I'd love to poll people who tried the game and left, as well as people who looked into the game before deciding against it. I can't figure a practical way to accomplish that, though.

It could be we're debating all the wrong issues and it really is all about the grass.

From reading what anyone has written here or other gaming sites, both reputable reviewers and average Joe Player reports, what you are talking about as a deal breaker is almost non existent. It might be non existent. I think that it is more "all about the grass", as you write, than even minutely about this aspect of your concerns. You could as easily say that the main enemy of paying subscribers is the difficulty to figure out what to do or how to play(controls, leveling, etc…smile

Still it is hard to say anything concrete without data and nothing but speculation. What kind of game can you make if you homogenize out everything that might displease a few players here or there?
First, I doubt that reviewers spent the 2 months it takes to even be forced to choose a settlement.

But as to your last sentence… Aye, there's the rub…. I joined, in part, to personally witness how this game turns out. I've said before, though, that the game may have made too many radical departures from the norm for players to be comfortable with. Of course, all those radical departures may make for the best game ever, when all the pieces are "finished".

It's hard to say if MVP was just set at too low a standard and thus the MMO community don't like what *is* offered, or if the MMO community has read the blogs and forums and really don't like what PFO *will* offer.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Bringslite
Midnight
Bringslite
Midnight
Caldeathe Baequiannia
The whole point was for it to keep certain players away. I think the important question is whether the people it's keeping away are those intended, or if it over-reached and is interfering with others.

I'd love to poll people who tried the game and left, as well as people who looked into the game before deciding against it. I can't figure a practical way to accomplish that, though.

It could be we're debating all the wrong issues and it really is all about the grass.

From reading what anyone has written here or other gaming sites, both reputable reviewers and average Joe Player reports, what you are talking about as a deal breaker is almost non existent. It might be non existent. I think that it is more "all about the grass", as you write, than even minutely about this aspect of your concerns. You could as easily say that the main enemy of paying subscribers is the difficulty to figure out what to do or how to play(controls, leveling, etc…smile

Still it is hard to say anything concrete without data and nothing but speculation. What kind of game can you make if you homogenize out everything that might displease a few players here or there?
First, I doubt that reviewers spent the 2 months it takes to even be forced to choose a settlement.

But as to your last sentence… Aye, there's the rub…. I joined, in part, to personally witness how this game turns out. I've said before, though, that the game may have made too many radical departures from the norm for players to be comfortable with. Of course, all those radical departures may make for the best game ever, when all the pieces are "finished".

It's hard to say if MVP was just set at too low a standard and thus the MMO community don't like what *is* offered, or if the MMO community has read the blogs and forums and really don't like what PFO *will* offer.

Haven't read every review nor have I perused all comments. I have done a great deal of looking/reading/posting, however. Mostly it was "what was offered as MVP", charging for "EE"(Head Start), some usual internet Trolls, and lots of people that go along with everything they read from 3rd and 4th parties. Not saying that all written was excessively trollish or that that only followers posted. There were plenty of legit complaints about MVP that were legit because they were personal(though limited) experiences leading to opinions. Those opinions are hard to change without side troll comments, but "whatevers". Haters gonna hate.

I also have wondered about so many changes from mainstream MMOs. It is what got me hooked back in the day.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Could just let groups build their own bases/settlements from the ground up or something. That would allow new power bloc's to step up.

Gotta have some way to lose it too. That way old guys can fall, new guys can rise, and old guy who do fall can still get back in and rise again.

Also they gotta get rid of this caste system they got going with the different tiers. It is that epow vs. epro thingy I keep hearing about. Basically there is no reason to remain t1 and no advantages whatsoever. In EVE ya got rifters and other ships to do all sorts of stuff. Besides, when traveling, rifters may not be as big of an enticing target as say a battle cruiser or something.

Here in PFO it is the opposite. Traveling as t1 is only done if you don't have t2. It actuslly makes ya an even MORE enticing tsrget cause with that epow vs. epro stuff ya ain't got a chance. I hear there's bandits around all smile
Either that or make the classes with some more variety. Basically all ya got now is rogues stab things, fighters smash things, wizards blast things, and fighter clerics smash and blast things.

Yeah…maybe make these classes do more than just that.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Edam
Midnight
Also, I'd like to be clear I'm not arguing for lone wolf play. But the number of settlements are the limit to your viable choices of social structures, and the fact that a guild (like TSV, Cheatle's guild, my own guild, etc.) controls multiple settlements only serves to narrow the actual choices a new player has.

Keeper's Pass is a totally independent free city (though obviously we take our neighbors position into account when making wider decisions, that is just being a good neighbor). Emerald Lodge seems to take a similar stance. There are a few others. Whether that position is sustainable longterm remains to be seen.
 
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