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Drogon
I would have to agree..scum, filth, and worst wishes are harsh terms that should only be reserved for the truly damned in this world… I think for Takasi the words liar and cheater are more appropriate regardless of what his intentions were.
HpoD - "I have, however, sat and watched as others took things more personally (on both sides) and became zealots, charging forward on a shining white horse into a pile of shit. Forum Warriors at their peak, striding the battlefield knee deep in the bloody, broken arguments of their adversaries before the burning village of their credibility….Chill guys. "
You are a Troll
Midnight
Bringslite
but I think I can understand how things sometimes spiral out of control. Before you realize it, you maybe start to feel like you HAVE TO BE that guy who is always there with everything that everyone needs.

If that is what happened, that sounds like it was driven by sheer arrogance and ego. The beauty of MMOs is that EVERYONE has needs/wants and EVERYONE gets to assist each other to meet those needs/wants. Having the humility to admit you can't always be there with everything everyone needs is essential to respectable social behavior.

Personally, I take deep umbrage at purposeful duping. It shows a total lack of respect for the publisher, for the players who devoted time to playing fairly, and for the players who make do with what they have (or even do without). The only bug I discovered in alpha testing was a duping bug; I reported it.

Any adult gamer who purposely dupes in an MMO has no respect for the community and is complete and utter scum. Such an individual is filth and deserves our worst wishes rather than some sort of understanding of their human frailty.

That's how I feel about duping in any MMO. I can't even express (without getting banned) my level
of antipathy towards a purposeful duper disrespecting THIS community . I held my tongue on the matter for over 2 months to cool down before I could even be *this* civil on the subject.

20 or so DT accounts and everything those characters could do/bring him wasn't enough, he had to have more? Sounds pretty arrogant and greedy to me. Glad he was banned and good riddance.
Midnight
Drogon
I would have to agree..scum, filth, and worst wishes are harsh terms that should only be reserved for the truly damned in this world… I think

Drogon
the words liar and cheater are more appropriate regardless of what his intentions were.

I suspect that liars and cheaters are very likely the truly damned in the world. If you can imagine that the kind of phony who'd purposely dupe in PFO and disrespect a community as unique and wonderful as ours… somehow lives an otherwise upright and virtuous life, feel free.

I'll continue to think that a purposeful duper who can disrespect a community like ours is unlikely to be honest in
any aspect of their life and is likely to use any chance to surreptitiously betray any person, group or community that makes the mistake of trusting them.

Would you hire a purposeful duper in PFO to handle a cash register at your business? To babysit your kids? To manage your partnership? To housesit your home while you are on vacation?

I wouldn't.


By the way… I can get over the sort of "cheating" that I and my PvP opponents have accused each other of when it comes to snap decisions in the heat of battle in full view of each other. Usually no particular battle is really that important and both sides have at one time or another admitted their poor judgement or at least been willing to let the devs decide. That is not the "cheating" I'm talking about.

It's the sneaky stuff that someone does day after day (with no one looking over their shoulder) with all the time in the world to think about it beforehand, and then all the time in the world to regret afterwards (but showing no remorse and continuing to do it) that gets to the point where I consider a person so horribly untrustworthy that I feel comfortable describing them as filth.

As I've noted, I found a duping bug in alpha testing. It is possible that if I hadn't reported the bug, that today I could have limitless amounts of everything of value in this game. Instead, I can't even afford to train all my characters. I'm okay with that. I'd rather do without than live life as filth. I have too much respect for this community, in particular, to do that to you all. I know we get snarky, we compete, and we argue the impact of each game mechanic, but this remains a unique and wonderful community that I could never betray like that, and I'll always be amazed when any of us who have experienced such a community, could betray it.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Midnight
Would you hire a purposeful duper in PFO to handle a cash register at your business?
Probably not
Midnight
To babysit your kids?
Probably
Midnight
To manage your partnership?
Maybe
Midnight
To housesit your home while you are on vacation?
Probably

For every one of those things, there would be a whole raft of things I'd consider. It's possible, and even likely, that one or more people filling one or more of those roles is already the sort of person who might cheat in a game, but I would typically never know it. I'm not ever going to say that Haagen (or the other person that no-one ever talks about) weren't wrong, or that they didn't deserve expulsion. I'm also not saying you don't have the right to think that about anyone. It remains that case that in my opinion it represents a reaction that is excessive.

It falls under the same reason that I dislike people using "Epic" and "Catastrophe" casually. Language is powerful, and each time we use superlatives in relation to things that don't deserve them, we cheapen the language. When someone refers to a concert as "Epic," do they really mean that bards will be writing songs and poems about the concert and those will still be recounted around campfires a thousand years from now? If not, it isn't epic.

The world is full of scum and filth, and people who deserve our worst thoughts, and when people use those words, I feel like they should convey a sense of the momentous; that the person in question should be known throughout the land. In general, people can't keep track of enough scum to be able to track everyone who ever duped in a game, along with all the other rapists, murders, and child molesters that might be infiltrating their lives.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Bringslite
Well there was this one young college student that I was going to let house sit and care for my dog for two weeks. WAS is the term. A deeper background check brought to light that she had once, when six years old, cheated in a family game of Monopoly. On Christmas Eve, no less! Really at six you have been to a year + of school and you should know that cheating is bad.

Yes, the world is full of terrible people of all types and degrees.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Decius
Some people did the research into finding a dupe bug and used it; some had a dupe but forced upon them and didn't. Some saw a loophole that might give them a moderate advantage and took a spurious position on their internal organization to fit that loophole.

There are matters of degree, interpretation, and fact and not everything that is accurately described by the same word is equivalent.
Schedim
Now I make the connection!

Why am I not suprised that he showed such bad judgement. If he deserves to be called filth … weel, I'm not oposed to that.
A person neither hesitating to lie in an argument nor fail to use an exploit is possibly not a nice person off line either.
Schedim: Peddler and dealer in stuff easily transported, restless wandering the land of the River. Trying to find out how to reawaken the cult of Hanspur. To realise this ambition I created the company named Rats of Hanspur.
You can reach me on: pfo.schedim@gmail.com
Paddy Fitzpatrick
There is also level of expectation. A child or a pre teen could probably be given a bit more slack on accoint of age and maturity level. It would be silly to hold something against a person thst they did all those years ago provided they learned their lesson.

But a full grown adult (given that most people i meet in this game are even older than i am) who probably has some kind of professional type life and im sure this aint his firdt MMO (could be wrong so correct me on this one)?

Come on man!

The gap is like the gap between grade school and grad school. People expect that by the time you get to grad school you ARE a professional now and got a lot of those immature kinks out of your system. Expectations are much higher, and its on that person to step up their game.

Like i said, i would even then be more inclined to have some sympathy if the guy didnt have so much unjustified antipathy directed at us. Thats just the final nail in the coffin that the guy made for himself.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Paddy Fitzpatrick
There is also level of expectation. A child or a pre teen could probably be given a bit more slack on accoint of age and maturity level. It would be silly to hold something against a person thst they did all those years ago provided they learned their lesson.

But a full grown adult (given that most people i meet in this game are even older than i am) who probably has some kind of professional type life and im sure this aint his firdt MMO (could be wrong so correct me on this one)?

Come on man!

The gap is like the gap between grade school and grad school. People expect that by the time you get to grad school you ARE a professional now and got a lot of those immature kinks out of your system. Expectations are much higher, and its on that person to step up their game.

Like i said, i would even then be more inclined to have some sympathy if the guy didnt have so much unjustified antipathy directed at us. Thats just the final nail in the coffin that the guy made for himself.
There's some effort to try to make this look like sympathy. Why the pretense? Nobody, of whom I'm aware, feels, or has expressed, any particular sympathy for Haagen. I noted that competition is well-sellected-for in our gene pool, and that some of the negative forms of competition are far more dangerous to society than others. I think I feel as much anger and disappointment toward Haagen as anyone else. I prefer to reserve the worst of my emotional responses for people who have done things much more damaging to the fabric of society than cheating.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Paddy Fitzpatrick
I think you misunderstood me. It was mostly in response to Brings point.

I was trying to say I'd be less inclined to feel the level of disgust I do if say Takasi and I had actually got along in the first place. To his buddies he may have been amicable and all but outside of that circle he just acted like a pretentious jerk. Maybe yall saw a Dr. Jeckyl in there somewhere but we only got shown Mr. Hyde.

He did not strike me as a otherwise decent person to begin with, if he had my attitude would have probably been different. That's why my reaction wasn't shock as it was more glad he showed everyone what I or anyone else who may have had to deal with this other Takasi knew he was like to others. As far as his life goes I hope he didn't destroy his life over the game or nothing like that. Still, hoping the dude learns and cleans up his act and has a good life don't mean his actions and character are somehow better. He was incredibly unpleasant to deal with and he had some of the most crazy views and ideas, and walked around liked he owned the place.

In short, I personally thought the guy was scum BEFORE the duping, but I wasn't sure. I had reconsidered my opinion of him at one point before the duping, maybe thinking there was more on my end than I realized (cause ya gotta examine your own point of view right?).

The duping pretty much confirmed it.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
 
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