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Holding Changes

Edam
One advantage not mentioned yet is you get MUCH tougher guards at higher plus.
Azure_Zero
Edam
One advantage not mentioned yet is you get MUCH tougher guards at higher plus.

That one is a well known part that is already in.

A thing you missed with these new changes is that Higher + crafting (and somewhat class type) holdings is that they become higher value targets in a feud/war.
For example a +5 crafting holding exceeds a settlement's crafting quality hence more likely to give crits and better crits, if you wanted to hinder them breaking gates and do some economic damage you could feud and take that holding reducing it by 1 (so +4, still good), if they take it back it it degrades again (so +3, it's OK, but it lost a lot of value), so if the feuded group wants that superior crafting ability back they have to spend the resources on making it again.
Quijenoth Starkiller
Just been listening to the last keepside chat and I had an idea, what if holdings had their own crafting queues…

You could effectively use the limited holdings to maintain production of refining goods without it impacting on your settlements main crafting queue.
Quijenoth Starkiller Viceroy of Callambea
Company Leader of Beyond the Grave - www.beyond-pfo.com
Crafting Planner
Bob
Quijenoth Starkiller
Just been listening to the last keepside chat and I had an idea, what if holdings had their own crafting queues…

You could effectively use the limited holdings to maintain production of refining goods without it impacting on your settlements main crafting queue.

There are currently some thoughts in the design about using feats to open up a secondary queue, so there'd probably be a conflict between those two ideas.

However, there are also some ideas about facilities each having some limited amounts of certain bonuses, in which case whenever the bonuses from the settlement are depleted, they'd still be available at the holding. Or perhaps the holding would just sell those bonuses more cheaply to attract business. Currently, we treat each facility as something of an infinite resource, and throwing in some aspects with daily limits could help spread usage around quite a bit.
Azure_Zero
Quijenoth Starkiller
Just been listening to the last keepside chat and I had an idea, what if holdings had their own crafting queues…

You could effectively use the limited holdings to maintain production of refining goods without it impacting on your settlements main crafting queue.

Now that would be a good idea, and it would put them into use or even thought of use.

Though I also thought they should add end-product crafting holdings like; an armoury holding (as smith), a lab holding(as lab), … etc. But these ones have a higher(and or harder) upkeep in return for being able to operate as a double crafting building, Or Single end-craft holding that have similar costs to the refining holdings. This would allow those that captured a settlement to be able to make some of the gear/items they need while they wait on getting their own crafting buildings in and up in the settlement.
Azure_Zero
Bob
Quijenoth Starkiller
Just been listening to the last keepside chat and I had an idea, what if holdings had their own crafting queues…

You could effectively use the limited holdings to maintain production of refining goods without it impacting on your settlements main crafting queue.

There are currently some thoughts in the design about using feats to open up a secondary queue, so there'd probably be a conflict between those two ideas.
…..

No conflict bob, unless you want to keep the number of queues really limited.
If the settlement can have a double queue, and the holdings have their own queues, then there should be no conflict. As each hex is it's own server, so each server would be processing it's own queue.

But now the question is; how many queues is too many queues?

As some folks have full queues for every character they have and this would just multiply a few problems.
*One would be that gatherers would require more time out in the wilds to get the materials to feed these extra queues.
*Second companies/settlements who semi-share raw mats would have those that might or are slow in getting the raw mats they need to advance.
*Third is that with this increased raw mat consumption, companies/settlements would be fighting more frequently due to intrusions or strip mining to get all they can since their consumption is too high.
*Forth Supply and demand will be even more lop sided, since consumption of end-goods is low while production speed is now multiplied, until a major war breaks out.
*Fifth when a war breaks out it'll spread to EVERYONE. Now why is that, it'll be because of the need to have extra end-products stocked as they burn through them (quicker then replacement), and over time their hexes will not recover fully and they will start to get desperate for new resources and start raiding other groups lands for resources to keep them stocked up, which will in turn cause the raided to war against the raiders, and repeat the cycle at a growing rate.

So For the most part technically it is very doable to combine Q's idea with the original double queue, but the effect in the game will be big, and a resource war will likely happen as the ticking time bomb waiting to go off when one settlement/group can't control their need for resources.
Bringslite
Azure_Zero
Bob
Quijenoth Starkiller
Just been listening to the last keepside chat and I had an idea, what if holdings had their own crafting queues…

You could effectively use the limited holdings to maintain production of refining goods without it impacting on your settlements main crafting queue.

There are currently some thoughts in the design about using feats to open up a secondary queue, so there'd probably be a conflict between those two ideas.
…..

No conflict bob, unless you want to keep the number of queues really limited.
If the settlement can have a double queue, and the holdings have their own queues, then there should be no conflict. As each hex is it's own server, so each server would be processing it's own queue.

But now the question is; how many queues is too many queues?

As some folks have full queues for every character they have and this would just multiply a few problems.
*One would be that gatherers would require more time out in the wilds to get the materials to feed these extra queues.
*Second companies/settlements who semi-share raw mats would have those that might or are slow in getting the raw mats they need to advance.
*Third is that with this increased raw mat consumption, companies/settlements would be fighting more frequently due to intrusions or strip mining to get all they can since their consumption is too high.
*Forth Supply and demand will be even more lop sided, since consumption of end-goods is low while production speed is now multiplied, until a major war breaks out.
*Fifth when a war breaks out it'll spread to EVERYONE. Now why is that, it'll be because of the need to have extra end-products stocked as they burn through them (quicker then replacement), and over time their hexes will not recover fully and they will start to get desperate for new resources and start raiding other groups lands for resources to keep them stocked up, which will in turn cause the raided to war against the raiders, and repeat the cycle at a growing rate.

So For the most part technically it is very doable to combine Q's idea with the original double queue, but the effect in the game will be big, and a resource war will likely happen as the ticking time bomb waiting to go off when one settlement/group can't control their need for resources.

Put all sorts of functions in holdings for raising the +'s, but plz do not increase the queues available. T3 will become as common as T2 and I feel like that would be a shame. Stockpiles of T3 craft materials are just too large which makes their real value more a factor of how long they take to produce in quantity.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Duffy Swiftshadow
Think folks are over blowing how big a deal our stockpiles are right now. The hex resources available were nerfed to match the lower population, once things get going those numbers will be increased pretty dramatically to match. Resource availability will sky rocket again with a few hundred to a thousand active accounts. But at the same time more resource churn should exist from the new demand and the conflict side effects of lots of players. Not saying extra queues can't be unbalancing, I'm just not sure it's an easy question to answer based on current scenarios.

Don't forget T3's bountifulness won't matter as much once proper threading is in play. It won't matter much when it's actually getting destroyed more than once every 2 months at best (along with T2 gear too!). And how many X crafters/gatherers are going to be required to keep Y combat toons optimally equipped? We have an odd situation right now where most DT accounts are being used to create extra crafters. I would guess that crafting characters outnumber combat characters on the server right now by a healthy margin. While there will always be dedicated multi toon players in the crafting department they will be outnumbered by combat characters in the long run. Once that starts happening I think you'll see a lot of the resource stockpiles we think are hugely imbalanced start disappearing at an alarming rates.
Bringslite
Duffy Swiftshadow
Think folks are over blowing how big a deal our stockpiles are right now. The hex resources available were nerfed to match the lower population, once things get going those numbers will be increased pretty dramatically to match. Resource availability will sky rocket again with a few hundred to a thousand active accounts. But at the same time more resource churn should exist from the new demand and the conflict side effects of lots of players. Not saying extra queues can't be unbalancing, I'm just not sure it's an easy question to answer based on current scenarios.

Don't forget T3's bountifulness won't matter as much once proper threading is in play. It won't matter much when it's actually getting destroyed more than once every 2 months at best (along with T2 gear too!). And how many X crafters/gatherers are going to be required to keep Y combat toons optimally equipped? We have an odd situation right now where most DT accounts are being used to create extra crafters. I would guess that crafting characters outnumber combat characters on the server right now by a healthy margin. While there will always be dedicated multi toon players in the crafting department they will be outnumbered by combat characters in the long run. Once that starts happening I think you'll see a lot of the resource stockpiles we think are hugely imbalanced start disappearing at an alarming rates.

That is possible. However incoming players, that we have recruited, are interested in crafting and gathering at something over 50%. Not sure that will be different with lots more incoming or not. Of the PVE lovers, almost all take at least one+ gather/craft skill. You need to as an alternative to getting a bunch of "combat" feats that you will likely never use. Aside from a few corner cases, ability score requirements push everyone that way.

I'm not so sure that crafters will be all that rare(less than 50% of pop) at all. They may not go into mid-high T3, but they will most probably handle T2 crafting well. That will free up T3 craft capable characters to concentrate if they want.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Gagnrath
Bringslite
I'm not so sure that crafters will be all that rare(less than 50% of pop) at all. They may not go into mid-high T3, but they will most probably handle T2 crafting well. That will free up T3 craft capable characters to concentrate if they want.

Yes, especially because progressing to T2 crafting is a decent way of bumping up a needed stat to train higher level combat feats.

Please do not increase the number of ques per character - that doesn't really help anyone but the longest tenured most account holding players. The demand/need for more ques makes new players who want to play crafters have an immediate demand for their services.
 
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