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Holding Changes

Bringslite
Edam
Gagnrath
Making another character, paying the sub, and leveling them up (with all that entails) to the point of being able to craft T2 or T3 stuff is very different than a toon who is already there simply getting another crafting que.

It just takes money to either buy a T3 crafting character or sub long enough to get the XP. Nothing else really.

You can pretty much park the character for 12 months to gain XP, log back in and level two crafts to T3 instantly if you have access to the recipes and mats or refined goods to blitz the achieves.

To get a refiner or crafter to T3 you need to make one T1+2 common item, one T1+3 uncommon item, one T2+1 common item, one T2+3 uncommon item - a total of 4 items. As you will need to take two crafts together to cover the ability and achievment gates you actually need to make 8 specific items total (two of those items will be free recipes the other 6 you need to have stashed away) plus maybe one or two random T1+3 cross craft items.

Yup. It just takes money or more new players. Why would you think that people won't be/aren't doing those things right now AND will continue it when they have 2 or 3 queues.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Azure_Zero
Bringslite
……

Yup. It just takes money or more new players. Why would you think that people won't be/aren't doing those things right now AND will continue it when they have 2 or 3 queues.

That is so true, it is NOT Funny.
Gagnrath
Because if you get extra queues on a single character, then that character doesn't have to pay the extra money to sub the game nor find the recipes, some of which are quite a pain to get. Not to mention the rather difficult +4 & +5 gates which require huge amounts of refines just to produce the few mats necessary to meet those gates. Giving more queues to people who have already done all this reduces interaction with the game world and other players and further concentrates power in the hands of the few, rather than spreading it around to newer players. Bad idea.
Duffy Swiftshadow
Gagnrath
Because if you get extra queues on a single character, then that character doesn't have to pay the extra money to sub the game nor find the recipes, some of which are quite a pain to get. Not to mention the rather difficult +4 & +5 gates which require huge amounts of refines just to produce the few mats necessary to meet those gates. Giving more queues to people who have already done all this reduces interaction with the game world and other players and further concentrates power in the hands of the few, rather than spreading it around to newer players. Bad idea.

Except we have dozens to hundreds of those things sitting in my vault right now! That's just me and I hate/avoid farming escalations! The number of those items will drastically multiply as more people are playing the game everyday. Those are not scarce, it is inevitable that they will be available in large amounts as time or number of players increases unless the systems drastically changed to reduce that effect somehow.

How would more queues reduce interaction or affect new players? The new player would have the same eventual access, they would be just as useful as if the extra queue didn't exist. If your saying that it puts them at a disadvantage until they get to that point of unlocking the extra queue, you could say the same thing about progression period!

Your also implying that the extra crafting advantage should cost money while complaining about focusing power into the hands of the few which is already happening via owning multiple accounts, which is something that can only be done by a limited few.
Azure_Zero
Duffy Swiftshadow


Your also implying that the extra crafting advantage should cost money while complaining about focusing power into the hands of the few which is already happening via owning multiple accounts, which is something that can only be done by a limited few.

No that Extra queue will just MULTIPLY, you heard that right MULTIPLY the power of the few who already have multiple characters, so instead of giving power to the weak you just Gave loads of power to the few
Duffy Swiftshadow
Azure_Zero
Duffy Swiftshadow


Your also implying that the extra crafting advantage should cost money while complaining about focusing power into the hands of the few which is already happening via owning multiple accounts, which is something that can only be done by a limited few.

No that Extra queue will just MULTIPLY, you heard that right MULTIPLY the power of the few who already have multiple characters, so instead of giving power to the weak you just Gave loads of power to the few

It would be about the same as the existing gap. Could argue it would help the single account guy a bit more by relying a little bit less on others to achieve some of the same effect a multi account person can do all by themselves.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Anything that increases the ability of a small number of people to do what is intended to require many people is working against the design intent and makes it more work to stabilize the economy in the long term.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Caldeathe Baequiannia
It probably also bears reinforcing that the number of queues the settlement has is not intended to be infinite. At some point, the buildings will only be able to accept a certain number of queues, and if all the high level crafters have mutiples, then regardless of how much they want to, some crafters are going to get told "Sorry, there aren't enough queue slots in town for you to play."
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Duffy Swiftshadow
Caldeathe Baequiannia
It probably also bears reinforcing that the number of queues the settlement has is not intended to be infinite. At some point, the buildings will only be able to accept a certain number of queues, and if all the high level crafters have mutiples, then regardless of how much they want to, some crafters are going to get told "Sorry, there aren't enough queue slots in town for you to play."

That's going to happen anyways, I would say that's one the reasons it should never exist in the first place. Trying to base anything passively on set numbers or assumed numbers of players is a foolhardy endeavor. It will be worked around, it will be taken advantage of, and you will be wrong about your estimates. The only thing you can do is lock participation to some amount or factor and depending on your systems that can be really awkward as it would be for PFO's crafting. That's probably the most important thing MMOs have taught us. It's impossible to balance without the ability to restrict accounts and characters to one per person. The only thing you can get close to balancing is by letting players activity be the deciding factor, right now for crafting that's pretty much impossible as the system works. For PvE and PvP, it would work fine as it's all tied to the # of people you bring to bear and participate.

EVE recently switched away from a similar system, might be worth looking into why.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Duffy Swiftshadow
That's going to happen anyways
Yes it is. And the opposite side of the P2W transaction is that if people are going to do it anyway, we should at least make them pay for it. giving people two queues does nothing to make anybody pay for it.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
 
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