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abandoned settlement takeovers

Duffy Swiftshadow
Well to be fair the intended capture mechanics are supposed to involve Siege equipment, walls, and some sort of capture point thing in the middle of the settlement. We're far from that at this point but that is the goal, everything right now is just a 'make due' mechanic to keep things moving a little bit.
Azure_Zero
Duffy is right in that we currently have a lot of band-aid fixes for things due to incomplete or missing systems, and more then just settlement capture rules, like real settlement upkeep, settlement building upgrades, settlement black/white lists, Current escalations not infecting hexes, etc.

Though I think we should be following the INTENT of these band-aids, like settlement capture, so old players/group are not profiting from a loop-hole in the band-aid, due to missing or incomplete systems, and also allow new players a chance at some of these systems, if they are limited in quantity like settlements.

We could even have a band-aid siege rules put in, but at this time it would be bad given the current population.
Edam
I concede we need to avoid over-rewarding people who are currently fronting up and subbing (and have done since day one) with a totally unassailable advantage over the hopefully large influx of younger characters when the game takes off.

By the same token I think some reward for showing faith and support and helping keep the game afloat is necessary. This support is not just money either I am aware of people (due to low settlement populations) putting 20 or more hours a week into stuff like settlement bulk good chores and management tasks leaving them little time to actually play. This dedication to keeping the game afloat should be recognized.

More specifically changing things so that the people who currently call us all idiots for subbing an unfinished game can then just round up a bunch of mates and rock in and knock down what people have spent years trying to build up is not something I endorse. Nor do I think that sort of player will actually have what it takes long term to manage a functional settlement anyway.

Generally speaking though the issue is one of scale. Settlements are meant to have hundreds or more active players and thousands of characters. The idea that every small group consisting of a player his partner and a few mates can each have a settlement of their own is just nonsense long term.
Bringslite
That's the whole situation isn't it? The map isn't full of abandoned LandRush spots but claimed settlements. There are Empires, Leagues, Dominions, Covenants, City States, Grand Alliances visible and Invisible. Shifting activities and industrial might being built. Some of these Mighty Alliances might even be able to field 15 players on a good day.

I wonder why it all feels like a BIG JOB and tiring sometimes? smile
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Tyncale
Edam
Generally speaking though the issue is one of scale. Settlements are meant to have hundreds or more active players and thousands of characters. The idea that every small group consisting of a player his partner and a few mates can each have a settlement of their own is just nonsense long term.

Yeah, it's easy to be a bigwig today, either by holding land, holdings, Bulk Goods, Recipes or Raw resources, just because lots of it goes uncontested currently and is almost up for grabs. This will change if the game takes off, and we will indeed see it taken from us by Angry Young Men. That's fine.

This is why I think the XP system is so good: the only truly lasting asset of ownership in PFO is the character that you put so much XP (and money) in over time. This is part of the reason why I like the current XP/money model.

You can lose all your assets, you can wreck your reputation, but at least your character has an intrinsic value. *Even* if PFO will implement the "funnel of suck" where a low mechanical Rep will have impact on your Stats. The intrinsic value is still there, you just need to repair your Rep(and leave the funnel of suck).

However the xp-system is a two-edged sword, as has been discussed ad infinitum: new players always trailing behind the xp-curve, no matter how much of a Parabole that curve is.

So one of the things I am curious about, is how Newcorp will look upon this feature.
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Tyncale
However the xp-system is a two-edged sword, as has been discussed ad infinitum: new players always trailing behind the xp-curve, no matter how much of a Parabole that curve is.
People are already pressing pretty hard against the glass ceiling. A year from now the biggest difference between an existing combat oriented character and one started today will be how many choices they have of what to put on in the morning. For the crafters it will be what T3 recipes they've learned. My dedicated engineer already has a nearly 3 month XP pool backlog because I don't have a T3 uncommon recipe.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Tyncale
I think there is Power (and Fun) in diversification too.

I think the current ceilings are just the gates that players are currently facing, so they are not spending any more xp untill they cross that gate: they do not want to divert from their path just yet. However once people get to their primary focus (be that a level 20 fighter or Crafter/Refiner or even a few levels before that) they will most certainly branch out more horizontally, leveling up another Role, spending extra gathering levels, take up a craft skill, maybe put XP in Seneschal and so forth. At least with their mains, probably not with their dedicated Crafters-accounts.

The thing is, single roles and Feats may be on a parabole XP curve, but in PFO you can keep spending endlessly and make your character so much more versatile and broader (and more fun imo) then just that single role.

In pure terms of Veteran Archer against Newbie Archer the gap is indeed only a year or so: you can become a Tier 3 archer in about that time. However new players will be looking at Veterans who not only are Top Tier Archers but also can craft, have the option to switch to a Healers role if their Party asks them to, or do some T3 Gathering on their adventures. I think there will always be a feeling of "unfairness" about that, if these new players have no way to breach that gap. And if PFO is succesful, we will see new roles and feats appear regularly. There will always be stuff to choose from.

I think even Eve now offers solutions so that new players can cross that skill gap more readily. I think it's basically veterans "selling" the xp from their subs to newbies(to a certain max), so that no "new" xp is being created, just changing hands. Or something like that.

Maybe Newcorp should look at that, not sure if that will work for PFO though.
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Midnight
Unlike Eve, they'll still have to grind the achievements. The "passive xp" in this game is deceptively less useful and less convenient than in Eve.

Would-be casual players sign up thinking it works like Eve, only to find that there's another layer of game design requiring their time in game that thwarts the usefulness of passive xp to that casual player.

They may have thought they could fit this game into their busy schedule (busy from jobs or busy from playing other games too) because a game with passive xp wouldn't require much of their time, and they'd be wrong.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Tyncale
Mm, yes, that makes the gap even bigger and impossible to breach with the above solution for Eve. I have no solution, maybe Newcorp has, or maybe players will be ok with it. smile

It's interesting that you mention those pools of passive xp being not so useful as people think: with the changes coming to Crafter gates, you can now instantly create a crafter, refiner or gatherer within days if you have a large pool of XP at your hands and the right materials(which will be ample by that time). I remember Ryan being a furious opponent of just that: being able to instantly create a character that fits a purpose.

Now I am sure he mostly meant this for Combat characters, hence the gates for those (Longbow Expert Achievements and such) but this change for crafters is definately not in line with that thinking. I must admit though that he never really coould convince me how an "instant" Combat character, or even a multitude of them, could be a serious weapon in PFO. Especially since Sieges and stuff are supposed to be drawn out processes.
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Duffy Swiftshadow
The only achievement gating that is really the least bit of a potential issue is gathering as there is just no way to speed it up. A particular weapon's achievement line is silly trivial to do in a time-frame that is fractions of the time you would normally spend 'leveling' a character just by grouping a little bit (especially with higher level buddies) and tearing through T1 escalations that do yield useful loot even for higher level friends.

Maybe if you want to play a lot of characters but have limited time you'll have issues hitting all the achievement gates, but then again you also won't have the coin either. You gotta have some time to play the game to get anywhere, that's true of EVE too. No isk, no training, no use of the training.
 
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