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Crafting Queue

Azure_Zero
Duffy Swiftshadow


T3 will still take a long time and it's resources are going to be rarer. The # of people that can make it is not the limiting factor. If another queue is bad then another crafting character is just as bad.

No they are different;
adding another queue is multiplying to crafting,
adding another crafter is addition to crafting.

Also another crafting character is another sub that pays the bills.
Duffy Swiftshadow
Your talking about the in-game economical factors though. The queues and their output are equivalent as far as the game is concerned.

Crafting can be 'gamed' by buying more accounts or shifting XP around. If at some point just one more crafting queue imbalances the economy, then one more crafting character is just as bad.

I don't think anyone would be a opposed to making that extra queue require at least entry into T3 amounts of XP to have been spent which should mitigate some of the multiplicity if it's that big a concern. But it's also a nice reward for dedicated crafters that helps them do the thing they do better without spending money on more characters.
Bringslite
Duffy Swiftshadow
Azure_Zero
Edam
…..
  • Right now- one queue per crafter is plenty and should not change.
  • longterm - in a game where you need to take 2 separate crafts up to T3 to progress AND a T3 queue can extend into months, multiple queues so you can craft two T3 items simultaneously with your alternate T3 craft skill just makes sense
…..

See this is WHY a Second Queue should be a NO GO, because T3 is suppose to Take long time and be RARE to have.
Another way of structuring the second queue so the longest to make items aren't stacked in a crafter's queue is
that the queues SPLIT into crafter and refiner, no doubling gear output on one character.

T3 will still take a long time and it's resources are going to be rarer. The # of people that can make it is not the limiting factor. If another queue is bad then another crafting character is just as bad.

Lol. I am not used to seeing you post things like that. ^^^

Not sure how it goes where you hang your hat, but a pretty large % of characters take either a gather or craft skill to help make ability reqs. Depending on a few factors, you might have to do that to rank 14 or higher with at least your combat characters. I think that you could do all PVE and PVP skills if you bought virtually EVERY skill for a fighter<—example. The way that I understand human nature, new players will go for the fastest route that is adequate to get up to speed so they can feel they are in the veteran's ballpark. I would be interested in why you think that won't be the same moving forward.

As to a shortage of recourses when the pop increases, I thought we are at 1/4 normal available gather right now. Definitely not suggesting that will be enough, returned to full, for that time when the pop increases. Now if those resources will be as rare as you envision, lots of T3 crafters will not be able to run 2 queues anyway. Many of them will fall back to T2 which might rob some new players from opportunity to be useful crafters..

Don't get me wrong here though. If it was promised and GW/NewCorp wants to follow up, that is their call. Also, I am not certain that there will be enough T3 crafters at "single queue capacity", but I think there will be.

High demand is almost always better than too much supply(IMO). It is easier to turn things up than it is to take away or turn things down. Look what happened with ranged and rooting.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Azure_Zero
Duffy Swiftshadow
Your talking about the in-game economical factors though. The queues and their output are equivalent as far as the game is concerned.

Crafting can be 'gamed' by buying more accounts or shifting XP around. If at some point just one more crafting queue imbalances the economy, then one more crafting character is just as bad.

….

The difference is in magnitude of the imbalance between the two that would be generated.
Adding another crafting queue to each character is effectively doing this; Queues = Crafters * 2
Where as adding another character is effectively doing this; Queues = Crafters + 1
(Crafters is more then say 1200 and increase it more and see the delta between the two grow)

Also the Adding another crafter, if it means another SUB, it is more money for Goblinworks to pay the bills and fill in the paychecks
Bringslite
Duffy Swiftshadow
Your talking about the in-game economical factors though. The queues and their output are equivalent as far as the game is concerned.

Crafting can be 'gamed' by buying more accounts or shifting XP around. If at some point just one more crafting queue imbalances the economy, then one more crafting character is just as bad.

I don't think anyone would be a opposed to making that extra queue require at least entry into T3 amounts of XP to have been spent which should mitigate some of the multiplicity if it's that big a concern. But it's also a nice reward for dedicated crafters that helps them do the thing they do better without spending money on more characters.

Disagree with that bolded part there. Requiring that you have 2 crafters able to make 2 T3 +3 sets in 20 days is not the same as having one able to make 2 T3 +3 sets in 20 days. Because then 2 crafters could make 4 sets in 20 days. 8 crafters could make 16.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Duffy Swiftshadow
Bringslite
Duffy Swiftshadow
Azure_Zero
Edam
…..
  • Right now- one queue per crafter is plenty and should not change.
  • longterm - in a game where you need to take 2 separate crafts up to T3 to progress AND a T3 queue can extend into months, multiple queues so you can craft two T3 items simultaneously with your alternate T3 craft skill just makes sense
…..

See this is WHY a Second Queue should be a NO GO, because T3 is suppose to Take long time and be RARE to have.
Another way of structuring the second queue so the longest to make items aren't stacked in a crafter's queue is
that the queues SPLIT into crafter and refiner, no doubling gear output on one character.

T3 will still take a long time and it's resources are going to be rarer. The # of people that can make it is not the limiting factor. If another queue is bad then another crafting character is just as bad.

Lol. I am not used to seeing you post things like that. ^^^

Not sure how it goes where you hang your hat, but a pretty large % of characters take either a gather or craft skill to help make ability reqs. Depending on a few factors, you might have to do that to rank 14 or higher with at least your combat characters. I think that you could do all PVE and PVP skills if you bought virtually EVERY skill for a fighter<—example. The way that I understand human nature, new players will go for the fastest route that is adequate to get up to speed so they can feel they are in the veteran's ballpark. I would be interested in why you think that won't be the same moving forward.

As to a shortage of recourses when the pop increases, I thought we are at 1/4 normal available gather right now. Definitely not suggesting that will be enough, returned to full, for that time when the pop increases. Now if those resources will be as rare as you envision, lots of T3 crafters will not be able to run 2 queues anyway. Many of them will fall back to T2 which might rob some new players from opportunity to be useful crafters..

Don't get me wrong here though. If it was promised and GW/NewCorp wants to follow up, that is their call. Also, I am not certain that there will be enough T3 crafters at "single queue capacity", but I think there will be.

High demand is almost always better than too much supply(IMO). It is easier to turn things up than it is to take away or turn things down. Look what happened with ranged and rooting.

Any argument about extra crafting queues imbalancing the economy has to also solve a new character imbalancing the economy with their single queue. If we find and surpass that tipping point without multi queues new characters will be just as 'useless' at crafting. However, there are several non queue # related ways to solve that. For example they could bump up the T2 queue times like they talked about before, they could make resources rarer, they could mess with what recipes need, they could add in some required in-game activities to keep queues moving, etc…

As to combat characters training crafting for stats, I currently manage 4 combat characters and outside of Con for potions none of them have crafting on their planned route to T3 besides my poorly thought out first character (Duffy unfortunately). If you're going all the way thru T2 crafting to T3 for stat points I think you've wasted a lot of XP if you aren't doing it for the crafting itself.

I will say that Fighters and possibly Wizards have it the worst. Fighter since their Features aren't very cross useful without also swapping weapons. Wizard because almost everything is split stat which decreases their ability to focus on a particular weapon and feature to get the progression they need.

The training argument also assumes they won't add tons of new stuff that would be worth training for stats over crafting. It also assumes that the perks for dedicating most of a year of XP to a crafter is far more debilitating to the game itself than if you did it to unlock something for a combat character. That feels a very odd to me.

The original idea from GW was that a second queue was a nice reward for a dedicated crafter, if the second queue is going to break the economy somehow, what other perk is worth giving to them?
Duffy Swiftshadow
Bringslite
Duffy Swiftshadow
Your talking about the in-game economical factors though. The queues and their output are equivalent as far as the game is concerned.

Crafting can be 'gamed' by buying more accounts or shifting XP around. If at some point just one more crafting queue imbalances the economy, then one more crafting character is just as bad.

I don't think anyone would be a opposed to making that extra queue require at least entry into T3 amounts of XP to have been spent which should mitigate some of the multiplicity if it's that big a concern. But it's also a nice reward for dedicated crafters that helps them do the thing they do better without spending money on more characters.

Disagree with that bolded part there. Requiring that you have 2 crafters able to make 2 T3 +3 sets in 20 days is not the same as having one able to make 2 T3 +3 sets in 20 days. Because then 2 crafters could make 4 sets in 20 days. 8 crafters could make 16.

The crux of the argument is that there is a tipping point in production that would trash the economy with oversupply. That tipping point is some X active queues in the game. It doesn't matter where those queues come from, it's the raw # of them that matters. It doesn't matter if 5 or 10 characters add up to X, just that X is reached and the economy is wrecked. So by saying dual queues existing will break the economy your saying that X will be reached just by adding the feature. The counter to that is why is that different than X being reached by single queued characters? What solution would need to be used to solve the latter scenario that wouldn't also solve the former scenario?

It's great that a new character that tips over X is making GW more money, but that has literally no bearing on the in-game economy.
Bringslite
Duffy
The original idea from GW was that a second queue was a nice reward for a dedicated crafter, if the second queue is going to break the economy somehow, what other perk is worth giving to them?
———————————–
New characters only add ONE queue each to the game right now and will stay that way unless changed. Giving ALL crafters more than one queue each doubles or triples, etc.. the number of queues on the server.

They are much different. If resources become really scarce and fought over all the time, it will be the big groups that completely own the server. Little guys won't stand a chance. T3 would become regular gear for those big groups. If you couldn't consistently keep your team in T3 for long You could end up with just two huge power blocs

Now I can see the possibility that it wouldn't be too bad for a perk at VERY HIGH ranks.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Huran
I would not mind if we had one queue per tier but were limited to one of each tier at the same time. Example, I could craft one T1, one T2 and one T3 at the same time but not two T2.

As far as combat characters needing crafting, I am a level 16 fighter and finding it VERY difficult to advance without taking a craft or gathering skill of some sort. I would say if I were maybe a heavy weapon fighter I would most likely have a slightly easier time, but as a dex build fighter with the archer armor feat it is nearly impossible to advance without some gathering or crafting feats or advancing beyond the normal 12 attack feats I use.
"Circles of power, gathered by EARTH, welcomed by GOLD, in strife and in mirth. Focused by CRYSTAL, guided by LIGHT, showing the way, by day and by night. wrought in IRON, strengthened by STEEL, together we stand, in wrack and in weal. Hidden in SHADOW, explored by WOOD, we circle together, for the greater good." –Maxikyd– http://www.kotcguild.com/
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Duffy Swiftshadow
If at some point just one more crafting queue imbalances the economy, then one more crafting character is just as bad.
If a second crafting queue requires a monthly subscription to fund the developers and a complete second set of training and recipes and the accompanying coin sinks, then it would be just as bad as one more crafting character. But a second queue otherwise would be little like one more crafting character.

Now if your queue speed dropped by a significant amount when the character isn't logged in, then there'd be an interesting brake on how many new crafters you could efficiently make. Which brings up a counter proposal that I'll post separately.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
 
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