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Crafting Queue

Duffy Swiftshadow
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Duffy Swiftshadow
Your implying combat characters don't already have dedication perks that are better than anything crafters get
I'm implying nothing of the sort. The planners spent a lot of time balancing a system the way they thought it should work. they might be wrong, they might not. You want to make a serious change to that balance. I haven't seen any solid reasons for doing so. The game is incomplete and sparsely populated. I have not seen a single complaint from a new player saying they've decided to quite because crafting is too slow. The adjustment may be required at some point, but the fact that a few crafters are very busy while others are not does not present evidence that the time is now.

The extra queue is a Goblinworks planned thing for dedicated crafters, this is not me trying to argue for a 'new' mechanic, nor did I put forth any details about requirements aside from it probably shouldn't be accessible until at least T3 levels of XP have been spent. The debate has been about the side effects of it's possible existence. No one even said it should appear right now, we did use a lot of current examples and future guesses to give some context.

You can't claim they didn't plan for it (the idea literally came from the mention of their plans) and then claim the planned balance is currently 'complete', but then turn around and mention the game is incomplete. That's entirely contradictory. How the hell do we know that the extra queue isn't part of their planned balance for crafter vs combat progression? Because it doesn't exist right now? Like 80+% of the features of the game?
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Duffy Swiftshadow
You can't claim they didn't plan for it (the idea literally came from the mention of their plans) and then claim the planned balance is currently 'complete', but then turn around and mention the game is incomplete. That's entirely contradictory. How the hell do we know that the extra queue isn't part of their planned balance for crafter vs combat progression? Because it doesn't exist right now? Like 80+% of the features of the game?
I didn't claim the balance is complete. I said there's no evidence the change is need yet. Lots of things are in the plans, lots of them have changed. You're making a case for something in the plans to be implemented, and making a case that it's important to give the crafters something. I'm disagreeing. I'm confident that if the time comes that extra queues are needed, they will get implemented. I am cautioning against (yet again) one or two voices convincing the developers that something needs to be implemented, or even just worked on sooner than is necessary. A year ago this time Somebody was so busy desperately trying to retain players that he was talking out of both sides of his mouth and his arse simultaneously. I don't think much of what was said last spring or summer as being a reflection of what's good for the game, and I'm not willing to make any assumptions about it.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Edam
Caldeathe Baequiannia
You're making a case for something in the plans to be implemented, and making a case that it's important to give the crafters something. I'm disagreeing. I'm confident that if the time comes that extra queues are needed, they will get implemented. I am cautioning against (yet again) one or two voices convincing the developers that something needs to be implemented, or even just worked on sooner than is necessary.

No that is not the case here.

  • Mention was made of the promised eventual introduction of multiple queues at some potentially distant future time.
  • One group began discussing potential restrictions such as not being able to craft the same item type simultaneously and possibly making the gateway to get access rather high
  • A second group came in with "oh no the sky is falling" saying please no multiple queues ever

At no point did I observe anyone claiming they wanted multiple queues now, or soon, or in the near future.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Edam
Caldeathe Baequiannia
You're making a case for something in the plans to be implemented, and making a case that it's important to give the crafters something. I'm disagreeing. I'm confident that if the time comes that extra queues are needed, they will get implemented. I am cautioning against (yet again) one or two voices convincing the developers that something needs to be implemented, or even just worked on sooner than is necessary.

No that is not the case here.

  • Mention was made of the promised eventual introduction of multiple queues at some potentially distant future time.
  • One group began discussing potential restrictions such as not being able to craft the same item type simultaneously and possibly making the gateway to get access rather high
  • A second group came in with "oh no the sky is falling" saying please no multiple queues ever

At no point did I observe anyone claiming they wanted multiple queues now, or soon, or in the near future.
I didn't say anyone was making a case for doing it now or soon. I did say "sooner than necessary" which is an entirely different thing. And while the hyperbole of presenting two arguments in a neutral fashion and turning the third one into "oh no the sky is falling" is well executed, it's nevertheless a pretty cheesy tactic. Especially when it contains a falsehood, since I repeatedly said it might be necessary one day, but that I just don't see any evidence that it needs to be introduced in any particular hurry.

I will regularly advocate against anything that looks like it might lead to the developers diverting resources in response to a vocal group.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Duffy Swiftshadow
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Edam
Caldeathe Baequiannia
You're making a case for something in the plans to be implemented, and making a case that it's important to give the crafters something. I'm disagreeing. I'm confident that if the time comes that extra queues are needed, they will get implemented. I am cautioning against (yet again) one or two voices convincing the developers that something needs to be implemented, or even just worked on sooner than is necessary.

No that is not the case here.

  • Mention was made of the promised eventual introduction of multiple queues at some potentially distant future time.
  • One group began discussing potential restrictions such as not being able to craft the same item type simultaneously and possibly making the gateway to get access rather high
  • A second group came in with "oh no the sky is falling" saying please no multiple queues ever

At no point did I observe anyone claiming they wanted multiple queues now, or soon, or in the near future.
I didn't say anyone was making a case for doing it now or soon. I did say "sooner than necessary" which is an entirely different thing. And while the hyperbole of presenting two arguments in a neutral fashion and turning the third one into "oh no the sky is falling" is well executed, it's nevertheless a pretty cheesy tactic. Especially when it contains a falsehood, since I repeatedly said it might be necessary one day, but that I just don't see any evidence that it needs to be introduced in any particular hurry.

I will regularly advocate against anything that looks like it might lead to the developers diverting resources in response to a vocal group.

So you will actively oppose all crowd-forging that isn't a developer sanctioned vote? So aren't you one voice loudly claiming authority over how the game should be made? Or do you not count because your voice is saying everyone stop talking about anything that isn't a blatant bug?

I'm just offering ideas and counterpoints, GW can do what they will with it and I trust them to do so without having to try to crush every conversation with inane babble. Your actively trying to sabotage any conversation in case it might detract from your own view of how the game should be developed.

I trust the developers to look at the data they have and we'll never see, the plans they have, and the conversations we have here to make a decision.

You on the other hand think that just because something is talked about loudly the devs will suddenly lose their agency and knowledge in a rush to appease us.

I guess I have to ignore your your posts now as you clearly have an agenda to sty-my all conversation. I didn't realize we were being actively sabotaged when talking with you.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Duffy Swiftshadow
I'm just offering ideas and counterpoints, GW can do what they will with it and I trust them to do so without having to try to crush every conversation with inane babble.
I'm doing exactly the same thing, without accusing anyone of inane babble. The developers are under no compulsion to listen to me any more than anyone else. If I feel like I have a counter viewpoint I'll express it. I think that in a vacuum of response, they have no idea if anyone disagrees.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Duffy, despite differing philosophies and play styles, and occasional butting of heads that result, I think you are an asset to the player base and respect your dedication to your team and to the game. I won't pretend there's never anything personal underlying our interactions, but I do not oppose you on the forums because you are you. It saddens me that you see me as sabotaging you.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Bringslite
Look guys, as a dedication perk for crafters that achieve high ranks, it doesn't look so bad. That is a somewhat controlled addition of more production power. Seems like it will be a major advantage to the older more established groups and I am not sure that is a great thing for new people coming into the game. I don't think that it will make playing a crafter more exciting or enjoyable in and of itself, though.

The above is much different than ALL crafters having an easy path(through a feat or a building) to multiple queues. If Joe is already playing and starts another account to craft, while that is an advantage for Joe, it isn't really much different than a new person coming into the game and taking up crafting. The only way to never allow any advantage obtained through $$$ with multiple accounts is to not allow it. That ship sailed before any of us logged in the first time.

Now if no one was suggesting that ALL crafters should have a relatively easy way to obtain multiple simultaneous queues, then obviously I am barking for no reason. :0 "Wuff!"
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Thod-Theodum
Here are my issues:
Dedicated crafter - do I become a dedicated crafter by changing my feats and armour? Having a second suit of armour and a few extra feats doesn't make you dedicated and it would be weird to get a bonus for that.

Are you not a dedicated crafter if you also trained some fighting to increase abilities? That would penalise players not having 5 min only log in crafters but actually use them elsewhere as well.

No - I don't have a solution.

Second queue: right now would only benefit T3. The bottleneck for lower tier are raw materials. I can't keep one queue 24/7 running without T3 crafting. T1 already is ridiculously fast.

What I would like a second queue to look like is not adding to the speed but to allow something else to be crafted - BOTH at half speed. That way a T3 crafter can do a 3 week job and inbetween still can make some T1 or T2 slowing him down but not being out of action completely for weeks.
Thod/Theodum are the OOC/IC leaders of the Emerald Lodge - a neutral settlement in the center of the mal that tries to the first to explore the Emerald Spire - should that part of the game ever become available. We have a strong in game and out of game relationship with the Pathfinder Society.
We welcome both hard core players as well as casual players with or without tabletop experience. We have a strong group in Europe and are slowly expanding into the US. We are predominately PvE as our neutral political stance means that we tend to use PvP only in self-defence. We are not anti-PVP - but expect limited PvP opportunity with us.
Duffy Swiftshadow
Bringslite
Look guys, as a dedication perk for crafters that achieve high ranks, it doesn't look so bad. That is a somewhat controlled addition of more production power. Seems like it will be a major advantage to the older more established groups and I am not sure that is a great thing for new people coming into the game. I don't think that it will make playing a crafter more exciting or enjoyable in and of itself, though.

The above is much different than ALL crafters having an easy path(through a feat or a building) to multiple queues. If Joe is already playing and starts another account to craft, while that is an advantage for Joe, it isn't really much different than a new person coming into the game and taking up crafting. The only way to never allow any advantage obtained through $$$ with multiple accounts is to not allow it. That ship sailed before any of us logged in the first time.

Now if no one was suggesting that ALL crafters should have a relatively easy way to obtain multiple simultaneous queues, then obviously I am barking for no reason. :0 "Wuff!"

I think the conversation started mixing bits and shifted a bit. It did start with adding the queue to the holdings, then debating if the queues should ever exist seemed to take over, and then it shifted towards what about the old idea of an extra queue for those that max out a crafting. Much like the special feats that become available to combat classes when they start maxing out.

The side conversation did bring up the idea/plan of limited crafting slots at each building, which I definitely think is a horrible idea that will curb new crafters. Either the slots will be a limiting factor and thus edge out new players, or they will be plentiful enough to allow anyone to craft at which point why bother with them?

Instead of limited slots they could shift to some sort of bonus system that is reliant on how much coin you pay per job and how much bulk or something the company invests in their buildings. Something like that, use a carrot to create the desired effect not an arbitrary hard cap.
 
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