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Exclusion of Brighthaven personel from the HRC's Territories

Seraph
Azure_Zero
Don't forget that an EBA member was also Banned for also doing the same thing as Takasi…..

Well, to some unknown extent. Kero unfortunately disappeared after his banning, so we may never know just how much he did, but I don't think anyone's under the impression that he was doing it nearly as flagrantly or for as long as Takasi was, hence the devs' offer to lift his ban pending a conversation about what he was up to. Kero certainly didn't do anything to give Brighthaven a competitive edge, which I think sheds some light on his motivation.

That doesn't really have anything to do with the strip mining anyway, unless you're suggesting that it was Kero that was doing it, which I can state with all confidence in his character and intelligence that he was not.
Seraph
Cleric of Sarenrae
Brighthaven
Azure_Zero
Seraph
Azure_Zero
Don't forget that an EBA member was also Banned for also doing the same thing as Takasi…..

Well, to some unknown extent. Kero unfortunately disappeared after his banning, so we may never know just how much he did, but I don't think anyone's under the impression that he was doing it nearly as flagrantly or for as long as Takasi was, hence the devs' offer to lift his ban pending a conversation about what he was up to. Kero certainly didn't do anything to give Brighthaven a competitive edge, which I think sheds some light on his motivation.

That doesn't really have anything to do with the strip mining anyway, unless you're suggesting that it was Kero that was doing it, which I can state with all confidence in his character and intelligence that he was not.

As you say, "to some unknown extent." We'll never know what was going on with both Takasi and Kero or what they were doing in game.
The HRC was confident that Takasi, with his character and intelligence, was playing legit and then proof showed up to say otherwise. So confidence is not proof. Proof is in the logs which we do not have access to.
Mistwalker
Seraph
I, for one, agree that we have no concrete evidence and can't for certain say that it was HRC that was strip mining. I move that we do not consider that an offense attributable at this time to them. It is unfortunate that the only way to really prove it is to stealth around and catch someone in the act of harvesting, or kill them and see what's on their husk.

However, I will note that after Takasi was banned the problem went away, which either means it was him, someone using one of his characters that got banned, or someone that wanted us to think it was him. Whether such actions had the knowledge or approval of the rest of the organization is of course unknown.

You say that you should not consider that an offense attributable to the HRC at this time - yet your area keeps stating that, in the forums, in general - but never with any proof. Cheatle at one point stated that he was strip mining Brighthaven 16, to deny the T3 resources to EoX. But the south east was accusing the HRC of strip mining that hex during that time period.

The HRC is fairly confident that some folks from the south east were strip mining hexes in the HRC - circumstantial evidence was the appearance of small holdings belonging to companies from the south east, then the strip mining started - all the while accusations against the HRC - who at that time had been gathering T3 for months and not strip mined anywhere. Because we have no evidence, we haven't been slinging accusations.

Yet accusations are still slung our way, with no proof. And you wonder why there is a bit of friction between HRC folks and the south east?
Mistwalker
Seraph
Kero certainly didn't do anything to give Brighthaven a competitive edge, which I think sheds some light on his motivation.

And you think that Takasi gave the HRC a competitive edge?
We gave Takasi our T3 recipes, as he was the master crafter, and recipe trader.
I personally gave Takasi over 2000 black, 4000 childstealer ivy, 4000 ash saplings, and lots of T3 recipes.

When Takasi was banned, the HRC took a major hit. The rest of the server were allowed to keep the recipes that he had traded to you, but the HRC got nothing - actually lost as we had barely no T3 recipes, just ones that hadn't been traded to Takasi yet.

So I find it a bit annoying that you are trying to give the impression that the HRC gained a competitive edge over the duping that Takasi did. That Kero was an upstanding guy, with pure motives, unlike that villain Takasi.

The devs said that they were going to give both Takasi and Kero a chance to explain themselves, and with a sufficiently solid rationale, the ban might be lifted. This was being offered to both Takasi and Kero, not just Kero.
The devs also said that both had been doing it for a significant period of time - so with Kero's banning, I can only assume that the devs didn't consider he was only trying to figure out how Takasi might have been duping items. And I just failed my diplomacy check, so to quote you, to me that sheds some light on Kero's motivations.
Drogon
A point of clarification because I was actually in the meeting with the devs. They said that Kero had only been successful in duping for a 1 week period and only doing it to t2 or below mats. Takasi had been at it for many months and had been duping t3 mats and recipes in mass quantities. Don't compare Kero to Takasi. Takasi was a liar and a cheater. Kero was the detective trying to gain proof before taking his suspicions to the devs.

@ Mistwalker, How did you manage to gather over 2000 black personally without taking it ever below top quality and only inside the timeframe you claim to have been gathering it? I myself had been gathering t3 since June 2015 every day on a cycle and max per day of top quality is 32. So with my gathering and your combined it would be numerically impossible for you to of gathered that much without degrading and/or violating what was at the time EBA territory. Also Shaella only ever gave you the okay to gather near kindleburn and never next to Brighthaven where I caught you once myself and told you that any perceived permission you thought you had was revoked. Your own statements are very contradictory and I find them difficult to believe.
HpoD - "I have, however, sat and watched as others took things more personally (on both sides) and became zealots, charging forward on a shining white horse into a pile of shit. Forum Warriors at their peak, striding the battlefield knee deep in the bloody, broken arguments of their adversaries before the burning village of their credibility….Chill guys. "
harneloot
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Decius
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Thod-Theodum
created value by killing 70%
The continuous assertion that players "create value" by taking most of the loot from an escalation is probably the second most ludicrous thing happening on the boards right now. People take down a hex because they get loot. They are not "creating value." If there were the slightest truth to that, they would not have farmed them for weeks on end when it was possible. Fighting escalations is harvesting them, both for loot and for achievements, it is not "creating value."
What? Farming escalations for recipes is pretty much the definition of "creating value". It also involves extracting that value for themselves, which is what players in PvP games do.
Come on, Decius. It creates value for the farmers, immediately. It doesn't create value in the hex. We're talking about the pretense that having taken down part of the escalation, you've somehow earned the right to be part of the boss kill. Taking 70% off the escalation does not make the escalation more valuable for the people that follow, it makes it less valuable. And when done by people from far away, it drains the value from the region where it was created toward the regions where the population is most dense. 20,000 years of civilization has given us ample proof of what happens when empires take what they want from others. They concentrate the wealth in the hands of a small group and send the areas they've raped into poverty. We all understand that's the way it is, but please don't act like it's the British doing South-East Asia or the Americas a favour?
Xyzzy - gatherer, yeoman archer, swamp monster.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
harneloot
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Decius
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Thod-Theodum
created value by killing 70%
The continuous assertion that players "create value" by taking most of the loot from an escalation is probably the second most ludicrous thing happening on the boards right now. People take down a hex because they get loot. They are not "creating value." If there were the slightest truth to that, they would not have farmed them for weeks on end when it was possible. Fighting escalations is harvesting them, both for loot and for achievements, it is not "creating value."
What? Farming escalations for recipes is pretty much the definition of "creating value". It also involves extracting that value for themselves, which is what players in PvP games do.
Come on, Decius. It creates value for the farmers, immediately. It doesn't create value in the hex. We're talking about the pretense that having taken down part of the escalation, you've somehow earned the right to be part of the boss kill. Taking 70% off the escalation does not make the escalation more valuable for the people that follow, it makes it less valuable. And when done by people from far away, it drains the value from the region where it was created toward the regions where the population is most dense. 20,000 years of civilization has given us ample proof of what happens when empires take what they want from others. They concentrate the wealth in the hands of a small group and send the areas they've raped into poverty. We all understand that's the way it is, but please don't act like it's the British doing South-East Asia or the Americas a favour?
Was that supposed to be a question?
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Drogon
So with my gathering and your combined it would be numerically impossible for you to of gathered that much without degrading and/or violating what was at the time EBA territory.
I'm not sure about Mistwalker, but if there was a prohibition before fall, I was probably violating something when I contributed to that, because I don't think I was aware of any prohibition for the first three months I was gathering black. If I was aware, I must have chosen to ignore it. And yes, a fair chunk of it was degraded, but pretty well always first pass (there were a couple of times I got frustrated and gathered down through the second layer completely). I was checking the hexes three times a day if they were in good shape, and probably daily most of the time. I don't know how long Mistwalker was at it, or when, but I passed him all mine except for a half dozen that are still in the south months later. In general, I think it's very likely I averaged about 5-10 a day for close to a hundred days without deliberate over-harvesting, very possibly more. Maybe the problem was never anything deliberate, and more a case of over-sealousness on the part of multiple gatherers.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Mistwalker
I was part of the outlaw council meeting as well.
I do not recall the devs saying that Kero had only been duping for a week, nor that it was only T2 resources.
If Kero had only been doing for a week, why was he banned - he had the opportunity to explain himself to the devs - apparently the devs did not believe that he was only a detective.
We both like our banned settlement mates, and from what I gather, neither of us have been able to contact the banned individuals.

Haagen was brilliant at getting characters to high level fast - he had T3 weapons, armor and character able to use them well before the devs though possible - even before there was art for the armor - it looked like he was running around naked. I believe that we had T3 gathering in late March or early April.
I gathered two to three times a day in both hexes to get black - took less then 2 months, so before you started gathering.
I slowed my gathering once I saw black being gathered, as I did not want to cause any conflicts with the EBA.

I did not/do not need permission to gather in the Kindleburn escalation hex - it is not in EBA territory. Shaella met me in the Hammerfall 12 hex if memory serves me right - where I told her that I was gathering in the area. I let her know that I was gathering maple, as it is in short supply in the west - which is not a lie, I was doing so, however I will admit that I did not also reveal that I was also gathering T3 resources.

As I did not hide the fact that I was gathering in EBA territory, even had several chats with EBA gatherers while out and about, I find it a bit of a stretch to say that you caught me, more that you noticed me. And since you asked me not to gather there anymore, as EBA now wanted only EBA gatherers to gather in EBA territory, I have not gathered a single black resource since you asked me not to. I have traded with you for black, shadowskin, dragonskin and childstealer ivy. I still have the email if you would like me to send it to you or post it here - the word revoke wasn't used, the email was actually quite polite, on both of our sides.

What part of my statements are not only contradictory, but very contradictory?
MidniteArrow
Most active people in BHA were confident long before the devs provided evidence that Takasi was duping. You may want to consider maybe you're not as good a judge of character as you think you are (most people aren't). That could be worth consideration given your confidence in our character.

Strong belief clouds judgement.
Drakis [Arrodima] [Default Speaker] [PvE Soldier, Empyrean Legion ]
Nijah [Arrodima] [Leader, The Argent Defenders, PvE]
Jinh [Arrodima] [Leader, The Concordian Council]
 
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