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Brighthaven Alliance Declaration

Midnight
Mistwalker
Why? Why do you need territory in that region now?

I think it is readily apparent that they hope to beat you into submission.

They KNOW right now they have the upper hand in numbers/activity/willingness-to-PvP/experience-with-PvP. They probably hope that you'll cave before fighting, or after a few BHA victories (thus the +4 choice in holdings). They probably feel that a victory NOW against you will give them a better bargaining position with the rest of the world for weeks to come.

I don't speak for them, I just know their ways.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Paddy Fitzpatrick
It is, as i said, all about power. It has nothing to do with principles or need.

Whether right or wrong, it is not relevant. Might may not make right but it sure makes it look convincing.

In a world of fiat claims and pure subjectivity, that is basically the only way to try to enforce ones will when there are clashes. A display of power through clout, persuasion, military, or all the above.

Whatever absurd ideas we come up with to justify our positions, in the end without an objective standard, you have what you hold arguably applies to ones desired playstyle and philosophy.

When everyone has an equally valid opinion, the ability to carry a bigger stick than your opponent is the final arbiter, regardless of who may be right or wrong out of game.

Welcome to sandboxes ladies and gentlemen smile
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
MidniteArrow
Mistwalker
MidniteArrow
It is the "inside our territory" part of that gives the perception that you are unwilling to negotiate. We are trying to establish a formal right to be there. If buying the tavern doesn't give us that, we have to place holdings.

Why? Why do you need territory in that region now?
You are putting in place something, just in case, some time in the vague future, that the developers may decide that the purchased taverns need bulk goods to operate above minimum level.
For that, you are willing to infringe on the territory claimed by another alliance, regardless of the state of negotiations.

Would you be willing to allow the HRC to place two holding in hexes of our choice (that are currently unoccupied by BHA companies) - maybe I should rephrase that, would you accept it if the HRC placed two holding and support outposts in two hexes in the claimed territory of the BHA? (please note that several HRC members have spare influence and already made holdings - so a yes on your part may see HRC holdings sprout in your territory).

You should ask those things of Drogon. I am not a settlement leader of BHA.

As for why now, because you made a formal claim that, at the time you made it, stated we were not welcome in your territory.

As for your placement of holdings in blue hexes, I'd ask about your motivation. If it seemed you had a reasonable claim, I'd be willing to discuss it. But as a reasonable person would see - our claim is to establish a right to our tavern which we can only do with holdings in adjacent hexes. Your holdings would be placed for the purpose of irritating the BHA. IMO.

If you want to quit beating the war drums, I imagine a hex-for-hex swap could be worked out. Or something like that. Something other than warmongering. HRC never entered into a real negotiation for territory with the BHA.

Again, all that would need to be worked through actual leadership.
Drakis [Arrodima] [Default Speaker] [PvE Soldier, Empyrean Legion ]
Nijah [Arrodima] [Leader, The Argent Defenders, PvE]
Jinh [Arrodima] [Leader, The Concordian Council]
Jokken
MidniteArrow
Mistwalker
MidniteArrow
It is the "inside our territory" part of that gives the perception that you are unwilling to negotiate. We are trying to establish a formal right to be there. If buying the tavern doesn't give us that, we have to place holdings.

Why? Why do you need territory in that region now?
You are putting in place something, just in case, some time in the vague future, that the developers may decide that the purchased taverns need bulk goods to operate above minimum level.
For that, you are willing to infringe on the territory claimed by another alliance, regardless of the state of negotiations.

Would you be willing to allow the HRC to place two holding in hexes of our choice (that are currently unoccupied by BHA companies) - maybe I should rephrase that, would you accept it if the HRC placed two holding and support outposts in two hexes in the claimed territory of the BHA? (please note that several HRC members have spare influence and already made holdings - so a yes on your part may see HRC holdings sprout in your territory).

You should ask those things of Drogon. I am not a settlement leader of BHA.

As for why now, because you made a formal claim that, at the time you made it, stated we were not welcome in your territory.

As for your placement of holdings in blue hexes, I'd ask about your motivation. If it seemed you had a reasonable claim, I'd be willing to discuss it. But as a reasonable person would see - our claim is to establish a right to our tavern which we can only do with holdings in adjacent hexes. Your holdings would be placed for the purpose of irritating the BHA. IMO.

If you want to quit beating the war drums, I imagine a hex-for-hex swap could be worked out. Or something like that. Something other than warmongering. HRC never entered into a real negotiation for territory with the BHA.

Again, all that would need to be worked through actual leadership.

I think what Cal was actually asking is why did you find more offense to a colored shape on a map that was posted last week as opposed to when HRC holdings occupied those hexes for many, many months. Until our capture of Veggr Tor, all of the hexes near that tavern and Rotter's Hole were occupied from nearly the start of the War of Towers. Never was a complaint lodged by any of your leadership or citizens. From our perspective it was a Tavern owned by a player with a platinum account who got very, very angry and left the game in a huff.

We only made the map claim because we finally tired of legalistic manipulators referring to hexes in the heart of the Bulwark Hills as "unclaimed territory". Upon doing so, you contest the claim because of your tavern. We communicated that we support the existence of your tavern in the area and welcome the trade and social interaction it could bring. We offered to rent you hexes in the area for token payments of less than 5 bulk resources per month (we would have agreed to a single bulk resource per month), but were unwilling to cede ownership of land within the Bulwark Hills to a foreign power by fiat.

We indicated that the Bulwark Hills region outlays a natural and identifiable political border and it is the land in which we have lived, hunted, and managed since the inception of the game. Land that many of you deemed "backwoods" and "undesirable" for much of this game's history.

You requested that you needed time to discuss internally and we not place holdings in those hexes until the termination of our talks. We agreed and did not in good faith finding you both reasonable and honorable at the time. In 48 hrs you returned with a written proposal of shared ownership and a buyout of two tier three recipes, one for each hex. We communicated that we were the ones who now needed time for internal discussion. During this meeting or shortly after, your agents placed holdings in both the hexes in question.

It is true,that we are offended and upset by what we view as a breach of good faith. I do not think we would be alone in that stance were others in our shoes. We continue to question your need of this territory.
Go West for freedom and adventure! Join the free soil settlers of High Road. Be a positive and constructive force for freedom in the Bulwark Hills. www.coalroad.com/hrc
 
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