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Has PFO lost its direction?

Paddy Fitzpatrick
Um, aspirations sure but to actually pull any of it off? Especially building the settlement from scratch?

Up until 11.2 most escalations werent even worth bothering with, and yeah before then, and kind of even now we aint swimming in abundance of structure kits, much less mats.

I was told about this first nhur athemon event some time back but that was before my time. Between all the mats, codices, and all the work involved to build anything from scratch, yeah, aint nearly enough to just build up all willy nilly.

I know this aint unique just to Dun Baile. Took a hell of a time pooling stuff together to just get one building up in Mediash as well.

Not sure where this overabundance is, cause if it is here someplace then obviously i must not have gotten the memo.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Bob
Many great points here. I'd love to allow escalations to start spreading again, but there are a few tricky bugs that need to be fixed first. Otherwise, they have a tendency to spiral out of control. I'd also love to finally implement some of the planned meaningful consequences for not quickly dealing with infections on your doorstep, and many of the ideas Q mentioned are very much along the line of what's been designed, or would at least be reasonable placeholders while waiting on more final functionality.

Until we can safely turn infection back on, consequences can only really be meaningful in the monster hexes. As Caldeathe mentioned, we could play a bit with the gathering system in those hexes after escalations are defeated, or we could reduce gathering abilities while escalations are running (perhaps escalations do some of their own gathering, reducing what's available). Long-term, we've always intended that infected hexes are harder to gather in, though some of that is supposed to come naturally from the increased danger presented by the enemy NPCs. Really making that work will require some AI work to make the encounters interact a bit more with gathering players.

Hopefully we'll be able to do some work in these areas soon, but we obviously have to make a lot of tough decisions when prioritizing our work right now. Additional funding will make it possible for us to work on more things at once, but even then we'll still have to prioritize our work and make sure that we're efficiently progressing toward our final goals. Ah, the joys of game development!
Thod-Theodum
Yes - EL is one of the settlements with +5 aspirations. We plan since a year for a +5 library - one of the easiest buildings possible. Yep - I costed it at 35K Antithesis Essence and a few other raw materials in the 20K+ range as well.

Nothing wrong with aspirations. Once they switch off universal training you will realise how tough it is. Golgotha shouldn't be able to train without any buildings - but in the current state if the game until NewCorps arrives it is for the best that they are able to train in EL or elsewhere - at least the players who are still left.

But once the game restarts there needs to be a decision to build up or find training in different ways. Until then unfortunately sticks are not the right motivation.
Thod/Theodum are the OOC/IC leaders of the Emerald Lodge - a neutral settlement in the center of the mal that tries to the first to explore the Emerald Spire - should that part of the game ever become available. We have a strong in game and out of game relationship with the Pathfinder Society.
We welcome both hard core players as well as casual players with or without tabletop experience. We have a strong group in Europe and are slowly expanding into the US. We are predominately PvE as our neutral political stance means that we tend to use PvP only in self-defence. We are not anti-PVP - but expect limited PvP opportunity with us.
Quijenoth Starkiller
Thod and Duffy have aspirations for settlements the size of cities. 1000s of players all working together to make the wheels turn. Many early settlements received a leg up (in the form of dead accounts and promises from GW) to achieve settlements much larger than they currently intended. Paddy wasn't so lucky so is building from the ground up, it will take time but nothing will stop him getting to a level 20 +5 settlement. just time.

This is the problem, the community and population should be what governs the size of a settlement, yet 2 people can currently run a settlement the size of the largest playerbase in the game.

This game is like a steeplechase with no ditches or jumps to overcome. Given enough time anyone can cross the finish line.
Quijenoth Starkiller Viceroy of Callambea
Company Leader of Beyond the Grave - www.beyond-pfo.com
Crafting Planner
Bringslite
Quijenoth Starkiller
Thod and Duffy have aspirations for settlements the size of cities. 1000s of players all working together to make the wheels turn. Many early settlements received a leg up (in the form of dead accounts and promises from GW) to achieve settlements much larger than they currently intended. Paddy wasn't so lucky so is building from the ground up, it will take time but nothing will stop him getting to a level 20 +5 settlement. just time.

This is the problem, the community and population should be what governs the size of a settlement, yet 2 people can currently run a settlement the size of the largest playerbase in the game.

This game is like a steeplechase with no ditches or jumps to overcome. Given enough time anyone can cross the finish line.

Time and effort are what it takes for all of us. Remember that the "starting player settlements" were partially meant to develop SOME kind of a working world and community before larger gates were opened to ALLOW 1000s more players in that were expected to be waiting. Small groups starting from scratch have had a really tough time, but they can get settlements of their own. Dun Baille is a shining example. It is not easy or cheap to raise even +0 buildings.

Not to toot our own horn too much, but The Dominion raised Staalgard pretty quickly to a functioning city at lvl 15 training and crafting in a pretty short time. It has more buildings in it than our other cities in fact. This was not easy and we are not a large number of players, but we do play many hours collectively and cooperatively. We Plan. We go about making Plans Happen. We try not to spread too thinly or too quickly without strengthening our current position. We look at the long game and always remind ourselves that we are not finished or ready with endless materials to play in that future game. We have about… 14 regular players. These almost never play the same days or the same times or even every day. We are doing well if 6 Dominion players are on at the same time.

The point here is that it can be done. It is being done. It isn't by ANY MEANS easy.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Thod-Theodum
Quijenoth
What didn't you get - this is how the game was designed from the start. A small settlement like EL which works for a year or more to build a single building up to a level which might be rare even in the biggest settlements.
I didn't say we have plans for any more as a library at +5. This single building will cost us so much we won't be able to afford a second one on that level.
But it doesn't mean +5 is only meant for the mega settlements. The whole idea is diversity. Maybe a top smelter in Forgeholm better as in even most large settlements, a thieves guild in Hopes End, etc.

These places might have different ideas - I just throw this out here as possible examples. Off course optimisation wise it is better to have a lot at the highest level you can afford and not one building a lot higher.

But that would make a boring cookie cutter environment.
Thod/Theodum are the OOC/IC leaders of the Emerald Lodge - a neutral settlement in the center of the mal that tries to the first to explore the Emerald Spire - should that part of the game ever become available. We have a strong in game and out of game relationship with the Pathfinder Society.
We welcome both hard core players as well as casual players with or without tabletop experience. We have a strong group in Europe and are slowly expanding into the US. We are predominately PvE as our neutral political stance means that we tend to use PvP only in self-defence. We are not anti-PVP - but expect limited PvP opportunity with us.
Duffy Swiftshadow
Effort and ability should trump all, not the raw numbers you have on a ticker somewhere. We've already seen the nasty side effects of depending on making an arbitrary number tick up and what it does to the social and organization environment, much less the hostile recruitment behavior we've seen. Why is 100 players at 4 hours a day or 200 players 2 hours a day not equivalent? 200 players get to 'build' more because theirs more of them? Why does that make more sense if the effort is the same? Not to mention the impossibility of accurately scaling things based around something as transient as population.

Sometimes bringing numbers to bear is enough 'effort' like an individual battle, other times it's about the aggregate effort over the long haul like with building and crafting. Sometimes you'll use mechanics, economics, or politics to mitigates that effort. That's what makes the game interesting and fun. Reducing it to arbitrary number requirements despite all other factors ultimately feeds a hostile environment that isn't going to make the game any better or diverse.
Paddy Fitzpatrick
I can think of a few things that can easily prevent us from getting what I actually aspire to…

- The fact that my true aspirations are a military fortress/bandit stronghold for criminals to make a stand in the first place. I want fortifications, military buildings, maybe hire guards that will fight alongside us in company feuds. None of that stuff is in the game.

It dont make any sense for a bandit group to have a crafting settlement or class training theme. If we even should have a settlement at all, it should be a forward base where we can strike out from and withstand a siege once sieges come in. So there is that fact that what i really want does not exist, at least not yet.

- Even if i was gonna go the route of everyone else, manpower and time are the next killers. Yeah sure given enough time one can do anything but how much time are we really talking about here? I cant even fsthom how to get a +1, let alone any higher. How much do people think newer groups are gonna have? If we are having this much trouble im sure newer companies with even less will fsre any better.

Sure technically the time thing is true but if that time is astronomical (like many years at least), then how does that help?

- Maybe the biggest one is manpower. I keep being told this game is meant for like 50-100 people per settlement or something and i keep asking myself "how?!" I cant imagine whatever the original thoughrs were on what was a reasonably difficult workload under that plan. Cause right now settlement workload is crazy tough, and basically coming home to a second job.

Maybe manpower will be solved with a higher pop. Hope it does.

Again, like i said, groups with aspirstions that are newer than us aint gonna be doing much better.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Midnight
EE12 is supposed to bring sieges. No settlement is guaranteed of eventually reaching their goal. Someone could end up as refugees long before reaching their goal.

By the way, I'd hope that siege engines can be built by independent players. It would be a total crock to require levels above Thornkeep support levels to build/operate siege engines. Thornkeep refugees need to be able to get revenge, and new folks need to have a way to challenge the status quo.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Quijenoth Starkiller
Your missing one thing Thod, the difference between a 6 man company running a settlement with a couple of holdings vs a 500 man company with half the map covered is accounts. Nothing more nothing less, 1 person can have 2 accounts and have his +5 library or he can have 200 accounts and max out the settlement on his own.

I have spent many many hours building spreadsheets for this game, I know better than most how to play the system. Callambea can maintain level 16 training and +3 to +5 buildings indefinitely in its current state it just takes me a couple hours per week to gather some bulk. Just a couple 100 influence and I can do far more - no new players, just more accounts, they never have to log in.

If your looking for crafters then Tyncale has that covered - there isn't a single craft he doesn't practice.

I'm all for a challenge. settlements aren't.
Quijenoth Starkiller Viceroy of Callambea
Company Leader of Beyond the Grave - www.beyond-pfo.com
Crafting Planner
 
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