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What is really behind these debates in a sandbox anyway?

Paddy Fitzpatrick
I have been thinking in light of all of this what is the premises behind why we do what we do. Why do we do the things we do? Behind all the reasons, debates, postures, and politicking, what are we buulding our cases on?

Is there anything we are appealing to when we think our position is right or another is wrong in this game? Some sort of in game absolute in a competitive PvP sandbox?

The only logical answer we can conclude is no. Part of it is there are a lot of missing game mechanics and so any structure we are trying to build to fill that void is fiat by definition. It is carving out a structure and meaning from a place where neither currently existed in the first place.

But on another level, even if that were the case there would still be disdain for controls most likely. The general attitude would still be how best to utilize them or work them to your own advantage. In game this is because in an open PvP competitive sandbox, there is no absolute, no thing in itself, and one would not be desired even of there was at it would be seen as a potential limitation on the nature of a sandbox. Right now there are some attempts by some factions to create such a standard out of nothingness, but others want to compete and will make up any reasons necessary to not only make em look good bit try to rally others to them to gain more power.

That is the one and perhaps only constant in such games, power. The ability to try to either use your poqer to compete and enforce your own will/standard on others vs. the power of said others to repel it. There is a constant ebb and flow and theres a benevolent and malevolent side. That same lack of absolute which allows us to form our own in game honor code can so easily be shattered by a more powerful group that is able to tear it down, and vice versa.

So behind all these kinds of pretenses, lets stop lying to ourselves, we want to compete. Could be about loot, prestige, power, pride, or perhaps a far more benign reason. Whatever it is, everyone wants to be the hero of their own narrative. Everyone wants to be a demigod of their own personal universe.

So maybe it is time to drop these pretenses and acknowledge that this is just a game where we are trying to impose standards on a standardless world. Might as well stop long winded forum disputes where the real premises got little tp do with the original position. Time to see who has the most power and the strongest will and intelligence to utilize it well, for better or for worse.

We all want to compete and get the best loots, best escalations, and have the best, most victorious fights (and the great tales that they make).

What do yall think?
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
harneloot
I think the subtleties of narrative, and story and politics and intrigue and history and agendas are what draw me to this game over a MOBA the same way RPGs draw me over board games or sporting events. What you say has some merit, but it isn't all of the story and certainly not all of the interest…at least for me. YMMV.
Xyzzy - gatherer, yeoman archer, swamp monster.
Duffy Swiftshadow
More or less I think the my answer is 'yes'.

However, when you deal with more than yourself subjective and opinion start to become a factor in the view of how things should be.
Quijenoth Starkiller
there are many different motives behind a game and how people enjoy them.

Take the recent UEFA Euro 2016
Some people are happy to watch the games at home, some on catchup, others on live TV;
There are others who host events at local public houses where people gather to enjoy the game;
Then there are those that pay money to fly out to their home teams games, supporting from the side of the pitch;
Finally you have the deluded hardcore fans. Fans that decide violence is the only way to honor their team.

A guy from my local town has been placed into a 2 week medically induced coma after being attacked by opposing fans. I see no sense in that, others views may vary.

How you enjoy something like an MMO may be vastly different to others, and so too are the emotions that MMO provokes.
Quijenoth Starkiller Viceroy of Callambea
Company Leader of Beyond the Grave - www.beyond-pfo.com
Crafting Planner
Bringslite
Pomp and Circumstance. Principles and PR campaigning.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Midnight
Sandboxes get tricky because they allow you to stop other players from playing the game they want.

Supposedly, we've all philosophically accepted that . But when you start to actually experience that at the hands of other players, there's a visceral feeling by the part of our brains that are less civilized.

Intellectually, the civilized parts of our brains know it is just a game and our very existence isn't really challenged, but immersive game is… immersive. Our brains are probably creating REAL chemicals leading to the same emotional and physical responses that real life conflict causes our brains to create.

Venting and posturing on forums is the gaming equivalent of venting and posturing in the town square about those who have "wronged" you.

tldr: I bolded the important part.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Caldeathe Baequiannia
I think the fact we feel compelled to fight about pixel-hexes in the forums is a good sign that the game isn't down-for-the-count. As a community we have an opportunity to set a tone for the game we want. Whether that tone survives (to any degree) first contact with the masses is an open question and mostly immaterial. It's when we decide it isn't worth fighting over that we show we've given up on the game. I'm not going to restate the position that is causing us (the HRC) the most grief at the moment, but it's important. I'll keep arguing it until the server decides I'm wrong, or unsubscribing is my preferred option.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Quijenoth Starkiller
Caldeathe Baequiannia
I think the fact we feel compelled to fight about pixel-hexes in the forums is a good sign that the game isn't down-for-the-count.

Is it the game? or simply a clash of personalities and those who follow them, spurred on by the emotions of the people they look up to?
Quijenoth Starkiller Viceroy of Callambea
Company Leader of Beyond the Grave - www.beyond-pfo.com
Crafting Planner
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Quijenoth Starkiller
Caldeathe Baequiannia
I think the fact we feel compelled to fight about pixel-hexes in the forums is a good sign that the game isn't down-for-the-count.

Is it the game? or simply a clash of personalities and those who follow them, spurred on by the emotions of the people they look up to?
Since none of us had much to clash about before this issue, I'm inclined to think the former. I have no issues with anyone in the BHA that do not stem directly from the last couple of weeks.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Bringslite
Quijenoth Starkiller
Caldeathe Baequiannia
I think the fact we feel compelled to fight about pixel-hexes in the forums is a good sign that the game isn't down-for-the-count.

Is it the game? or simply a clash of personalities and those who follow them, spurred on by the emotions of the people they look up to?

It is the collective personalities that make the moves that cause reaction in other collections of or individual personalities. Without this game, we would be just as likely to be fishing/hunting buddies, xbox teams, or square dance partners as any other collections of individuals are. Notwithstanding the distances that we live from each other, of course.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
 
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