Cookies Disclaimer

I agree Our site saves small pieces of text information (cookies) on your device in order to authenticate logins, deliver better content and provide statistical analysis. You can adjust your browser settings to prevent our site from using cookies, but doing so will prevent some aspects of the site from functioning properly.

What is really behind these debates in a sandbox anyway?

MidniteArrow
I typically post as Drakis on these boards. I should probably make that more clear.

OOC: I don't hold anger for anyone in this game. Like Bringslite says, I'd hope the "fights" are just about having fun playing a game. It's just a game. If you're not having fun, do something else. Life is short. The company allegiances make our characters adversaries. Hopefully they don't make the players enemies.
Drakis [Arrodima] [Default Speaker] [PvE Soldier, Empyrean Legion ]
Nijah [Arrodima] [Leader, The Argent Defenders, PvE]
Jinh [Arrodima] [Leader, The Concordian Council]
Paddy Fitzpatrick
The funny thing about sandboxes though ties back to my original post of the more nihilistic nature of them. It also ties in with the time investment. When you dont have anything of inherent value, even just taking the time to try and conjure one for yourself or others becomes a lot more significant. Everyone then comes up with different ways to play in the sandbox and will naturally grow attached to what they do.

No shame in it, in a type of game where your only way of finding meaning is carving one in a meaningless system, it is natural and perfectly ok to have those attachments, it should be encouraged. What else do you got? Your playstyle is all you get and someone else saying no and trying to change it becomes an inherently existential threat to your way of life so to speak. There aint no way around this, we all do it to some degree and we would be lying to ourselves if we said we dont.

So while the game is fake and we all know that, all this effort to create meaning from meaninglessness is where you will see real offense taken. If one does not have any power to force their view on others or force others to back pff when they try to do likewise, it aint just a loss of some pixels on a hex map, it becomes a statement of "you dont have a right to exist." Even if we say otherwise or try out of game to not be this way, sometimes there is no getting around it. Out of game the best we can do is prep ourselves for that day which may come when our own factions and playstyles have been deemed unfit for existence and all meaning that we created for them is crushed into dust.

That said i do applaud effortsin this community to try to buck the trend. Remains to be seen if it will last.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Bringslite
As long as you keep all of that in the context of "It is a game", Paddy. The feelings and stuff are real enough. I know because I have been alternately happy, sad, terribly mad, ecstatic, heart pumping-ly fearful, you name it while playing here or even good TT. It's what makes these more complex games more engaging than others.

They are still games, however.

If you truly enjoy the game, you are into your character, your "group" and your "way of life" in the context of the game you decide how far your character will go and how hard and long he will fight. You should take a break if it starts to affect your real life. Keep your guard up. Some Game designer somewhere once said that the ultimate goal was to create a "living world" that is more engaging than real life.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Bringslite
You know, there was a time when The Free Highlanders were young and "control" of things like bits of land(towers) determined not just how high you could train at the buildings in your settlement, but how high your character could progress. Actual real limits on personal power.

Anyway, we were very proud. We had it in our mind that we were invincible. Not just a few PVP engagements had gone very well in our favor. We made the overreach to poke the Biggest Meanest Bear on the server in more than just little squabbles between various companies over a tower here and there. In a two or three night running battle, that Bear(who was beset on at least two sides) turned to the north and rolled up about 1/2 of our towers. A significant part of our way of life and our character power was crushed.

It wasn't that we had no friends. It wasn't that we had not asked for it by being blatantly over confident. We may have lost some players right then, but I don't think that we did. What we had to do was quit the field, consolidate our remaining Towers and actually MOVE our favorite characters and companies to our friends in Alderwag. There we lived in survivor mode for some months.

But we used politics and patience. We regrew the things that we lost. We strengthened them and grew even stronger. WE rebranded ourselves but the concept is the very same thing, sans the overweening pride. Not that we feel like we are in a position to lord over anyone or anything now, but we are more canny, more patient, and more carefully deliberate than we were before. AND WE ARE STILL HERE.

Edit: Apologies for the rant. There is actually a message here that I was trying to get across. We may all feel that we have a Utopian Ideal in the way that we play and live within our various areas. It is how we are doing that EXACTLY that is the ultimate limit to our enjoyment of this game. Step back and take a look. Those groups that feel that way are not living in a vacuum.

One of the best, most interesting parts of the game is having to adjust your Utopia to fit in with everyone else's Utopia. They very often conflict with each other. That doesn't make the game unplayable. It makes the game interesting.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Drogon
Bringslite
You know, there was a time when The Free Highlanders were young and "control" of things like bits of land(towers) determined not just how high you could train at the buildings in your settlement, but how high your character could progress. Actual real limits on personal power.

Anyway, we were very proud. We had it in our mind that we were invincible. Not just a few PVP engagements had gone very well in our favor. We made the overreach to poke the Biggest Meanest Bear on the server in more than just little squabbles between various companies over a tower here and there. In a two or three night running battle, that Bear(who was beset on at least two sides) turned to the north and rolled up about 1/2 of our towers. A significant part of our way of life and our character power was crushed.

It wasn't that we had no friends. It wasn't that we had not asked for it by being blatantly over confident. We may have lost some players right then, but I don't think that we did. What we had to do was quit the field, consolidate our remaining Towers and actually MOVE our favorite characters and companies to our friends in Alderwag. There we lived in survivor mode for some months.

But we used politics and patience. We regrew the things that we lost. We strengthened them and grew even stronger. WE rebranded ourselves but the concept is the very same thing, sans the overweening pride. Not that we feel like we are in a position to lord over anyone or anything now, but we are more canny, more patient, and more carefully deliberate than we were before. AND WE ARE STILL HERE.

Edit: Apologies for the rant. There is actually a message here that I was trying to get across. We may all feel that we have a Utopian Ideal in the way that we play and live within our various areas. It is how we are doing that EXACTLY that is the ultimate limit to our enjoyment of this game. Step back and take a look. Those groups that feel that way are not living in a vacuum.

One of the best, most interesting parts of the game is having to adjust your Utopia to fit in with everyone else's Utopia. They very often conflict with each other. That doesn't make the game unplayable. It makes the game interesting.

+1
HpoD - "I have, however, sat and watched as others took things more personally (on both sides) and became zealots, charging forward on a shining white horse into a pile of shit. Forum Warriors at their peak, striding the battlefield knee deep in the bloody, broken arguments of their adversaries before the burning village of their credibility….Chill guys. "
Edam
The amusing thing is that if you take into account current demand for mats (versus stockpiling) and number of currently available people to run T3 escalations on a regular basis – there is actually no shortage.

Particularly the escalations, if they were all killed instantly so as to respawn quickly (as opposed to everyone hoarding them till they can get a party up there sometime the following week) the entire server would be flooded with T3 expendable's and mats smile

Not that co-operation is necessarily a good thing in a game that is meant to be about territorial conflict.
Drogon
Edam
The amusing thing is that if you take into account current demand for mats (versus stockpiling) and number of currently available people to run T3 escalations on a regular basis – there is actually no shortage.

Particularly the escalations, if they were all killed instantly so as to respawn quickly (as opposed to everyone hoarding them till they can get a party up there sometime the following week) the entire server would be flooded with T3 expendable's and mats smile

Not that co-operation is necessarily a good thing in a game that is meant to be about territorial conflict.

This was the basis for our idea behind the "72 hour" rule. Granted it was controversial in the manner it was presented but it sure did seem to light a fire under everyone's donkeys smile
HpoD - "I have, however, sat and watched as others took things more personally (on both sides) and became zealots, charging forward on a shining white horse into a pile of shit. Forum Warriors at their peak, striding the battlefield knee deep in the bloody, broken arguments of their adversaries before the burning village of their credibility….Chill guys. "
Bringslite
OP
What is really behind these debates in a sandbox anyway?

Unexpected and unwanted change.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Bringslite
OP
What is really behind these debates in a sandbox anyway?

Unexpected and unwanted change.

Pretty much,

See, everyone is competing to try to control the inherent chaos that such games consist of in the first place. Some cope by coming up with additional laws, civilizations, and so on to place overtop of or stop it so that they have a modicrum of control over their destinies.

Of course, the methods may differ but ultimately it is about controlling or harnessing said chaos and trying to bend it to your own survival/advantage. Some use civilization as the method, others use wanton destruction and devastation, others still prefer to remain unaffiliated or simply syphon off resources from others when they are not around (or steal from others syphoning off the land when their gatherers ARE around).

All different means, but to the same ends. We want those resources, we want dat glory, and we wanna grow in power and prestige, and dat phat loot.

At the end of the day, are we all truly different from one another? Deep down, behind all of our masks, we cannot deny that we all are very much the same in many ways when push comes to shove smile
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Midnight
Ghouls just want to have fun.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
 
You must be logged into an enrolled account to post