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Posturing?

Eyraphel Teralyn
Caldeathe Baequiannia
MidniteArrow
Ooc: They claim the offer was just for one hex
Which is why the offer to rent multiple hexes was never made.

Oh, so then your issue wasn't with the "offer to rent" as your quotations seemed to indicate but rather the number of hexes offered? Apologies if I misconstrued.
Drogon
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Drogon
In my opinion your version or perception of the way things happened is incorrect.
Apparently we have something in common. I have no idea how we are supposed to get past you saying our position is one we don't hold, or that we said things we never said.

So you do not deny that Jokken called everyone on the server "Morons" for making previous territorial claims?
HpoD - "I have, however, sat and watched as others took things more personally (on both sides) and became zealots, charging forward on a shining white horse into a pile of shit. Forum Warriors at their peak, striding the battlefield knee deep in the bloody, broken arguments of their adversaries before the burning village of their credibility….Chill guys. "
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Eyraphel Teralyn
Caldeathe Baequiannia
MidniteArrow
Ooc: They claim the offer was just for one hex
Which is why the offer to rent multiple hexes was never made.

Oh, so then your issue wasn't with the "offer to rent" as your quotations seemed to indicate but rather the number of hexes offered? Apologies if I misconstrued.
You did misconstrue, but it's hardly an apologizing offense. Even before the negotiations, the HRC was always willing to rent a hex if it was needed to support the Tavern. I also said that if it turned out it needed more than one hex to satisfy it's upkeep, we'd make sure it wasn't a problem and talked in generalities about other hexes available in the area. Everything related since has been either a misunderstanding or a pretense on the part of BHA members.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Bringslite
Hobson Fiffledown
Now, now, now. With the whole down there attacking players bit, has no one has really put together anything in common with the characters that have been attacked? Most characters just go down in the journal. Loves me my notes…

Our land was invaded and occupied. Leaders of the invading settlements, members of any primary/founding company of those invading settlements, and members of the occupying companies all seem like fair targets for a defender taking action against an aggressor. Find me a (recent) target outside of those groups and I will apologize. smile

Any suggested timeline which puts Hobson in the SE for anything other than retaliation against an invasion and occupation is incorrect.

I am confused as to why this is not understood…

The first act in thus drama was The HRC finally publishing a claim on some hexes, like many other groups, so that there might be less drama about harvesting and hunting the hexes near The HRC settlements. The server pretty much forced this to happen.

The second act was The BHA claiming some hexes INSIDE that area. Forget why for a moment. It could have all been done from the point of reference on that Tavern without the need to claim HRC hexes. Some of the hexes were actually occupied by HRC holdings in this first round.

Third act. Failed negotiations. They would have failed with just about anyone who did the same things that The BHA did. You don't invade someone's territory and then ask if you can keep 1/2 of your invasion claim. That isn't negotiation. It's Invasion followed by a failed attempt at looking good with "consession" that leaves you still in control of part of your original land grab.

Fourth act. HRC considers itself in a state of conflict and acts accordingly. HRC does not recognize the invaded hexes as sovereign to BHA. HRC proceeds to play havoc where it feels it can to show its displeasure.

It is ridiculous to invade, expect that territory then to be respected as yours by those you invade, and further expect to paint the invaded as the wrongful party when they begin conflict to try and get YOU "the invader" to leave the invaded area.

You don't get to do things like invade people and then call their reactions to that the reason that you invaded, or the reason that you are justified. The server is not quite that stupid, but nice try.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Bringslite
Drogon
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Drogon
In my opinion your version or perception of the way things happened is incorrect.
Apparently we have something in common. I have no idea how we are supposed to get past you saying our position is one we don't hold, or that we said things we never said.

So you do not deny that Jokken called everyone on the server "Morons" for making previous territorial claims?

You know, if he did call us all Morons, it makes me giggle. We certainly act like Morons sometimes. If it is because we are drawing lines on the map, I can see why he would say that. The HRC has always been against that and while both Jokken and I know the reasons for both of us to disagree about it, we probably both shake our heads at the folly of the other guy's philosophy.

It doesn't wound me to read that.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Ravenlute
Bringslite
I am confused as to why this is not understood…

That was well put Bringslite. I'm sending you a case of Firecask Ale on the next mule.
Myl - Herald of Stone Bear Clan (Tavernhold)
"You can walk into Tavernhold but a horse will have to carry you out."
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Drogon
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Drogon
In my opinion your version or perception of the way things happened is incorrect.
Apparently we have something in common. I have no idea how we are supposed to get past you saying our position is one we don't hold, or that we said things we never said.

So you do not deny that Jokken called everyone on the server "Morons" for making previous territorial claims?
I don't recall if he was referring to everyone on the server, but he definitely did say some people were acting like morons. I do not dispute that at all.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Ravenlute
Now watch Drogon try to build a case that the HRC's claim has no merit in the first place, at which time I will smack him upside the head with a popsicle, because saying that will make it happen. Disbelief doesn't make something suddenly vanish.

As for accountability, what's the point of making claims if you aren't going to enforce them? We're not going to do it for you. If people are running around causing mischief and eating your pie then it's on you to do something about it.
Myl - Herald of Stone Bear Clan (Tavernhold)
"You can walk into Tavernhold but a horse will have to carry you out."
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Eyraphel Teralyn
In the interest of full disclosure, I am a member of BHA. I have no first-hand knowledge of any events or experiences previously described on these forums. I will do my best not to speak for others who do.

From what I've been reading, I think several individuals are concerned about the accountability of HRC members. While your citizens enjoy many individual freedoms, there seem to be no repercussions if anyone oversteps their bounds. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems from the outside that HRC expects other factions to enforce their own laws as appropriate. HRC gatherers in territory defined as a No-Gathering zone, for example, should be dealt with by the land owners with HRC's blessing, but HRC as a whole seems to disavow any responsibility for its people in these circumstances.

I'm of the opinion that while that structure is fine, it can't coexist with laws and restrictions imposed on other factions. There's no incentive for other factions to respect the laws of the HRC if it claims no responsibility for its own citizens when they disrespect the laws of other sovereign states. In the eyes of a hypothetical faction wronged by a hypothetical HRC member, the treatment is nearly identical to any nameless bandit. In this allegory, though, the bandit also makes demands about borders and restricted actions.

For several pages now, I believe individuals in this thread are merely frustrated in dealing with what they perceive to be a group of lawless citizens imposing demands on other players with no accountability themselves. And while this must certainly not be the intent or focus of HRC, one must be willing to work together to find a solution that isn't simply incessantly contradicting one another.
I didn't see this earlier, or I'd have responded sooner.

I think you have a misconception about our expectations. Certainly about mine. I do not expect other settlements or groups to control their people. I think that is an impossible task, since no-one has any way of knowing what their people are up to. I don't think anyone in the HRC asked Drogon to apologize for a BHA member being caught in our territory, rather we killed the character and moved on. Just as Hobson has been killed in pursuit of his activites in the south east without us ever complaining about it. If I ever do get down to the south east with my gatherer, I expect I'll be killed multiple times, and no-one in the HRC will ever complain about me getting killed, or how far or where they had to chase me to kill me. When I was killed by Dreggo for being in a closed Aeonian League hex, I never complained about it, because I knew I wasn't welcome. I did make fun of their policy because it was in conflict with his actions, but I never tried to cop to anything but poaching. I didn't ask Jokken if it was okay to poach, and he didn't know I was there. When I was harvesting in the South East last summer and fall, I didn't ask anyone if that was okay.

In general, I believe the members of the HRC do not believe that alliances in the River Kingdoms should be telling their members or anyone else's, where to go or not go.

Say What You Will, I Live Free
Oathbreakers Die
Walk Any Road, Float Any River
Courts Are For Kings
Slavery is an Abomination
You Have What You Hold

I will never complain about the BHA killing me for crossing them. Nor for taking what they can. Only for using words to pretend they aren't just doing it because they can. If Brighthaven wants to be a shining example of good in the chaotic and lawless river Kingdoms, they are going to be held to that standard by more than just me.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Stilachio Thrax
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Drogon
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Drogon
In my opinion your version or perception of the way things happened is incorrect.
Apparently we have something in common. I have no idea how we are supposed to get past you saying our position is one we don't hold, or that we said things we never said.

So you do not deny that Jokken called everyone on the server "Morons" for making previous territorial claims?

I don't recall if he was referring to everyone on the server, but he definitely did say some people were acting like morons. I do not dispute that at all.

At times, I have referred to people on the server as far worse smile If BHA wants to play the game of using negative past comments unrelated to current events as ammunition, they really need to reread virtually every post their members made in the lead up to, duration of, and aftermath of the Forever War. They hardly did themselves any credit. I was no fan of EoX, but some of the comments made crossed- really flung themselves over- the line.
Virtus et Honor

Steward of Ozem's Vigil, Lord Commander of the Argyraspides Iomedais
 
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