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Another one bites the dust

Duffy Swiftshadow
Impact on the gamespace matters more with the various micro transaction options. WoW boosting to 100 doesn't really matter, levels are just an arbitrary gate to accessing content. You don't get any sort of leg up on anyone who went the long way.

Fluff cosmetics are always a good option (to a degree) as they have no impact on the game itself.

Convenience is a grey area, it depends on what concepts the game is built around. Better carry weight in a game like PFO or EVE has larger ramifications than bag slots in ESO as it directly impacts competition. I would go so far as to say that at the moment the Smallholdings are pushing the line if something similar (but different in some ways) isn't added to the crafting options somewhere in the future.
Midnight
Duffy Swiftshadow
WoW boosting to 100 doesn't really matter, levels are just an arbitrary gate to accessing content. You don't get any sort of leg up on anyone who went the long way.

While the player boost doesn't make you better than the veterans, it can cause what I'll call "subscription-remorse" among the veteran players when someone spends $60 and zero time to get equal to a veteran who has spent over $1,000 in subscriptions and put in hundreds of hours of time to reach that level.

The real question might be do we pay for the chance to play, or are we paying for power? You can fault the veteran player for thinking she paid for power and deride her as a "powergamer", but the boosted newbies aren't any nobler in my opinion, since they choose to skip content and pay for power. They just paid far less for that power than the veteran players had to pay for it.

As someone who has an appreciation for a level playing field, I get why new players want to be where I am in a game. I just don't necessarily agree that the should be able to hop to that point for far less money. The more you see that in games, the more you'll see a disincentive to get in on the ground floor of a persistent game, which would be a bad news trend for newly launching games.

I can picture me min-maxing my gaming dollars and saying "Naw, I'll subscribe ten years from now and still be equal to you for 1/20th of the money you spent." smile
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Duffy Swiftshadow
Eh not really equivalent, the majority of that veteran's time is most likely spent at the highest levels. Sure they got a lot of time in but it's all in either playing max level or leveling alts (because that's what they enjoy). The boost lets you get to that part quicker, it doesn't change any sort of 'fairness' game-state. If anything the existence of the boost shows just how ridiculous the whole leveling treadmill has gotten in that sort of game without really impacting it any meaningful way.

Thus it's more of a convenience fee to save yourself some time, and the cost is way more than the sub time to get their the 'hard way'. It's usually less than a week or two if you play daily for a few hours to max out your level for the current expansion in WoW, month tops. The dungeon/raid grinding for gear is really where all your time is spent.
Midnight
Your point is supported by all the veterans who are also paying for the boosts on their alts.

But the ability for people to feel that they can delay entering subscription games on release if they feel that many of those games will be a powergaming min-max dollar bargain later probably isn't good for the profits of newly releasing games. I doubt I'm the only person who considers min-maxing both my time AND my dollars.

stealth edit: On my walk to lunch it occurred to me that what I'm describing is similar to deflation. The savvy consumer keeps realizing the longer they wait, the cheaper they get what they want. With all the free to play games out, the savvy consumer might choose them until the next big thing offers them a catch-up for a twentieth of what the vets paid. There will always be some consumers who AREN'T savvy or (like me with PFO) make unwise choices for reasons and/or who can simply afford to not be savvy. But when it is always a wise choice to put off spending money, that may not be good for the gaming industry.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Decius
WoW has so many treadmills that the treadmills are on treadmills and they have to help people catch up the treadmill. Getting character power in WoW is less of a means to accomplish an objective and more of an objective in itself.

There are lots of possible social dynamics in WoW, from the groups that are trying to validate their attempts at being the best at WoW by getting "firsts" to people who are only nominally playing WoW as they hang out together.

The same types of people play PFO, but nobody considers getting Hit Points or Dowser to rank 20 before anyone else an achievement the way hitting the new level cap this expansion, or beating the new palate swap of the boss, is.
Midnight
Decius
WoW has so many treadmills that the treadmills are on treadmills

smile
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Bringslite
Kind of depends both on why you are playing and how competitive aspects of the game are laid out, doesn't it?

Non typical advancement(paying to be delivered to near the top) means less in a non PVP server or game. In PfO it makes a big difference.
Store bought encumbrance bonus means little on a non PVP server or game. In PfO it is a big deal.

Pretty much what I think Duffy is trying to get across. Depending on why you are playing the game, you might want to enjoy the ride. If it is only about the end game, well then…

Edit: While I think that games offering these jumps might encourage a very few players to wait, I seriously doubt that it would ever be an impactful amount. Like cable TV. Are you going to go without your news programs or movies and wait until a really special sign up deal comes along? Are you going to quit your cable when(if) you see a bargain coming that is only available to new customers?
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Edam
One of the biggest issues with Gold Ammo, or any other such attempt to let people make up for time in game by sinking real cash, is it invariably advantages the preexisting power groups far more than it helps new players.

My main personal objection however is that these strategies trade off committed longterm players (who tend to leave) for short term churn players looking for the next shiney thing. Something that has worked in a limited fashion for Games Workshop who re-targetted their franchise towards 13 year old boys with rich parents who play for 12 months then stick the miniatures in the cupboard, but was an unmitigated disaster for Wizards when they tried it with 4th Edition D&D.
Midnight
Bringslite
Pretty much what I think Duffy is trying to get across. Depending on why you are playing the game, you might want to enjoy the ride. If it is only about the end game, well then…

I get that, and it is why I still pay a sub on some games. But the dollar min-max is also why I'm paying for fewer simultaneous PFO subscriptions than I used to and fewer than I can afford. Between weighing the possibilities of the game's collapse, or an uncompensated reset, or the game getting even cheaper than it has (I paid $55 more per account than late-comers), etc. the dollar min-maxer in me calculated that I might not be missing out in the long run on the power/options that go along with paying for more accounts. I could be wrong, but we've already seen deflation in the mandatory cost to participate in PFO, and that follows an industry trend.

So I'm enjoying the ride in PFO on a single account today, because multiple accounts are generally about options/power rather than enjoying the ride. I have a combination of the content enjoyer in me along with the min-max powergamer in me. Today, GW is only getting money from the content enjoyer part of me. Multiple accounts (and even DTs) are the realm of the min-max powergamer, and this one is calculating that I'm not missing out on much by waiting.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Wolf of Rathglen
You guys are giving so much game theory to NewCorp, FOR FREE, put this thread behind a paywall right?

If funding and development works out and they read this for insight into the core PFO player:

I was a single-game WoW player for its first five years, advanced guild on the server with access to content most players didn't, and the instant I felt the treadmill under my feet I logged out and never went back in; with 3 months left on my sub.

In and out of EVE for 8 years and even with a reasonably powerful character it's got no hold when I can't find a social group that suits me. Same reason I'm in and out of GW2 even though it might be the "best" MMORPG humanity makes; before VR and 10,000 of us are trapped in the release by a sociopathic designer's plot where our bodies die if our characters do.

Freemium v. Sub: hard call when the game isn't even close to done to decide which parts might be paid for.

A unit that allows a DM to take other players on a tabletop session with their characters IN the PFO world could be worth a few bucks, then again I've always thought that should be a standard basic feature of Pathfinder… Online…
Hammerfall: Like a waterfall, but tougher.
 
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