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PFO Has Class

Wolf of Rathglen
Not wishing to derail the thread but I always preferred the totally classless original concept and think bowing to TT player pressure and introducing roles (iconic or otherwise) was a really bad idea. In fact anything that gets back to the mechanics rather than spirit of the 1960s Gary Gygax vision is limiting. Just because Gygax did things a certain way is no reason to stick with it across all games forever. THACO anyone?

I don't want to derail my thread either, so I started this one.

That whole "totally classless" spiel always was a flat out lie.

Pathfinder has classes. For Pathfinder Online to be remotely like Pathfinder, it has classes. Saying the version of PFO from Kickstarter didn't have classes is not only a demonstrable lie it goes against the freakin dictionary.

Class - a group of things that all share important characteristics (a minivan wins Best In Its Class, but is never compared to a 2-seat roadster).
Role - the function of a thing.

Feats that require martial points and Str/Con as attributes are all in the fighter class of feats while those that require arcane points, Int, Dex are in the wizard class, but they both generally perform the damage dealing role in group activities. Most rogues too. Characters with feats in the cleric class of feats usually perform the healing role and will be joined by the druid and paladin classes in the healing role later. No one expects any of those to make their weapons or gear- that is done by characters in the production role trained in the freeholder or artisan classes of feats.

What this game is: open class. A single character can play as any class or hybrid of classes they have the training and equipped gear for. It doesn't take long to point out the differences between PFO and most other rpg's.

Even at Kickstarter they were exclaiming their great idea to divide feats into groups that use different achievements, stats, etc. as gates and named the groups after their Pathfinder class counterparts. The only thing that changed was a fascade that we're going to call the same old classes "roles" now to conform to the "totally classless" lie but absolutely nothing else about classes will be different from Tabletop Pathfinder, we promise.

I don't get why GW lied instead of saying open class all along.
Hammerfall: Like a waterfall, but tougher.
It gets better: Most of the feats that require Martial points and Str/Dex are "General" feats, along with most of the ones that require Arcane and Int|Per and most of the ones that require Crafting and any one ability score.

To talk about "classless" or "open class", it is necessary to define the terms clearly enough to talk about them. Defining what those terms are is the entire discussion.
I think that "role" is a term that tries to define very basically what you do inside your current party, your company and your settlement.

"Class" is indeed a dinosaur that isn't necessary and is confusing, but is kept alive waiting for possible "Dedication Bonuses" features that are on hold.

For now, it just amounts to a small part of the language that is an attempt to tie the game a little bit closer to what TT players would(hopefully) find more comfortable.
Virtute et Armis
Wolf of Rathglen
If you have a very rigid connotation of class in a computer game like once you are a hunter you are only a hunter and can only do hunter things, then yeah that concept is basically retired and part of the gaming past.

But classes still exist in PFO, we can't be everything we have trained all at the same time. We have to choose what class or hybrid we're going to play as right now. You've seen the anger players who were promised "totally classless" express in the game and forums when they realize, yeah, train as a fighter or a tailor or a cleric but there are definitely classes in this game.

That's why an open class system modifies the term to break the old assumptions and be more… open.
Hammerfall: Like a waterfall, but tougher.
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