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Much Ado about alignments, but here's the question that matters...

Paddy Fitzpatrick
Alright so we all go back and forth and have fun with what it means to be Chaotic/Lawful/Good/Evil

This is all good and let's keep going with that.

My question though, is how does that translate into an MMO setting though? With no DM besides the game mechanics there isn't much else there to set a standard much less enforce one.

It's some food for thought. Can alignments in the classic D&D sense be done in an MMO?
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of Aragon Alliance and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Maxen
It depends on the motivation and willingness of the players. This game was heavily marketed to Pathfinder role players, so I think it's fairly safe to say that many of us that are still playing know how to play the alignment of our characters. While I don't usually "role play" while I'm online, my actions are still those of my character concept. But I feel it's also safe to assume that if and when this game grows, there will be more players who have no idea, or no intention to role play an alignment. And since there is no GM to referee situations as they develop, you have to rely on system mechanics to ensure that people are rewarded or punished for taking the appropriate actions.

So to answer your question, yes, for now players can make the effort to play an alignment and be successful at it, but long term, I believe an alignment will need to be declared and the system will reward or punish you based on your in game actions.
Maxen
Double post
Midnight
What alignment does whatever their friends tell them to do?

I think THAT is the alignment of most PFO players.

Is "obedient" an alignment?

Neutral/submissive?
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Edam
Obedient is probably a variant of lawful.

The biggest issue in MMOs is the alignment-mechanic relationship is reversed. Players choose an alignment that gives the most mechanical benefit and the best role play excuses to do what they want.
Midnight
Edam
Obedient is probably a variant of lawful.

The biggest issue in MMOs is the alignment-mechanic relationship is reversed. Players choose an alignment that gives the most mechanical benefit and the best role play excuses to do what they want.

Isn't that what TT players do?

Actually, even then, peer pressure from the other players usually guides my choice.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Midnight
When I played GURPS, our GM said the easiest way to choose weaknesses (for more points to apply to powers) is to choose your player weaknesses. e.g. If you as a player just can't walk past a mysterious box/passage/control-room etc. you might as well take the points on "curious".
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Weaknesses is a neat mechanic for that.

Again, how do you translate that into an MMO?

I would think it would be interesting for players to get mechanical benefits of doing actions in accordance with that and it being offset by various limitations. I am also in favor of mechanical penalties for going too far off alignment without declaring an alignment change.

I think it would be good if alignments are going to be a matter to take seriously in this game. I think it would be much preferred to the current state of in game alignment stuff which goes something like this:

Person 1: What we are doing in this game is Good/Evil/Chaotic/Lawful
Person 2: No its not!
Person 1: Yes it is!
Person 2: Nuh-uh!
Person 1: Yeah-huh!
Person 2: Nuh-uh!
Person 1: Yeah-huh!

And so on…

Either person may be correct but there is nothing outside their own subjective take and political spin backing it up.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of Aragon Alliance and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Gaskon
I liked the early vision of alignment that tied it to settlement and territory control.
For example, a lawful settlement might be able to set stricter controls over who its npcs would do business with, have more options for flagging someone as a trespasser, etc, but the downside would be that it would lose more development points if someone committed a crime in their territory.

I don't think tabletop alignment translates to an MMO for individual characters, but it could be tied to mechanics that made alignment a meaningful and enforceable decision at the settlement level.
Ravenlute
Yup, alignment in an MMO needs to be dealt with by game mechanics. Whether quest related or driven by direct actions of the players, everything would shift that axis. You've seen similar things done in games like Knights of the Old Republic with their Dark/Light axis.

Benefits would include item or ability use based on alignment as well as setting up a black/white list for your settlements guards.

The tricky part with a PvP MMO Sandbox is not creating a system that allows players to easily grief each other, forcing them to shift in a direction they don't want to go. Like how Reputation is kind of borked right now.
Myl - Herald of Stone Bear Clan (Tavernhold)
"You can walk into Tavernhold but a horse will have to carry you out."
 
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