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The Very Most "UnFun Thing"

I am talking about Bulk Resources here. In their current AND (so far as we have seen) proposed role, having-needing-moving them is not only boring but detrimentally unpleasant. Detrimental in the way that I have considered quitting PfO rather than face a future of having to move them. I certainly do not speak for everyone on this, so YMMV. I am certainly NOT delusional enough to really believe that more players will make moving Bulk Resources one little bit more exciting so long as they stay the way that they are (and so far as planned) one small iota "fun" or "worthwhile" or feel "rewarding".

When Universal Support was introduced the whole concept of Bulk Resources became worthless, as is. They are not valued so, ironically, they will not be sought out as prime targets for banditry or even for economic warfare. That leaves the moving of them as nothing more than a tedious chore.

I would like to suggest that value be added to Bulk Resources. This can be done by making them either:
1. Important by being more scarce
2. Important by being more useful

My thoughts lead me to conclude that #2 would be the best route. Anyone have any ideas how that could be made to happen? I know that I have dozens.
Virtute et Armis
Taking universal support off of the table would be a good start.

I'd like to see a total demand high enough that people look at a +3 outpost as a waste and upgrade it to +4.

Unfortunately that makes the chore of collecting it all even worse.
Duffy Swiftshadow
I would classify removing Universal Support as an immediate attribution to 'unfun' both short and long term.

Bulk Resources lack value due to a lack of conflict, ease of acquisition (way too much available influence today much less the future), and no limits on the amount or access to training they provide.

I do agree moving bulk around is a bit boring, but I don't know how to make that fun. Increasing value is a bit easier, just adding other uses could do that.
I think that I would look into something along the lines of:

Bulk Trade Goods: Exchange/trade of these generates some sort of revenue, be it DI or coin. The further it is moved the more the value.
Bulk Wood, Bulk Stone, little bit of Bulk Iron: Required in recipes(in varying amounts) to build all structures, repair structures and a bit to maintain structures. NOW let structures be damageable when attacked.
Bulk Wood, Bulk Stone, Bulk Iron: Required cost to reach certain levels of Settlement defense or Defense DI. Required to repair it more speedily. Required for Siege Engines.
Bulk Food: Required for support of the "small folk" that operate outposts, holdings, settlement buildings and increased as Defense "settings" are increased. Required for declaration of wars. An Army marches on it's stomach…

Whether these ideas are attractive or not, the gist is to give BRs more uses and so increase their value. Nothing really great ever came of a resource with very limited uses if those uses are all negligible.
Virtute et Armis
Just posting agreement here. For those of us who have to move around the Bulk Resources, it sucks. It's slow and time consuming and it is a job.

Those are decent ideas Bringslite but where does it fall in the priority list of things to work on? In PFO's current unfinished state, almost everything still needs work.
Myl - Herald of Stone Bear Clan (Tavernhold)
"You can walk into Tavernhold but a horse will have to carry you out."
Just posting agreement here. For those of us who have to move around the Bulk Resources, it sucks. It's slow and time consuming and it is a job.

Those are decent ideas Bringslite but where does it fall in the priority list of things to work on? In PFO's current unfinished state, almost everything still needs work.
I would say that it falls low compared to most things, unless improving it could be tied directly into new player or everyday play and also be an improvement there.
I bring it up randomly like this hoping to hear some revelation about some future changes kicking around in a Dev's mind or laid out on a white board. smile
Virtute et Armis
I would already be happy if they would allow us to pop a mule at the Holding itself, rather then having to transport an empty mule there first.

Apart from more flexibility and less irritation, it would also boost turnover of mule-ingredients and increase the likeliness of people muling stuf. I think people will be more inclined to pop a mule more often when they are near their holding anyway to empty it out, rather then wait untill the holding has accumulated a lot of stuff and then do multiple runs in a row. In the empty world we have now, neither method is very dangerous, but when the population is higher I think more mule-traffic could spice up things.

At least I would choose to mule more often with lesser loads rather then how I am doing it now.

I certainly agree with making Bulk Goods more valuable too, else the above would be moot anyway.
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
I would already be happy if they would allow us to pop a mule at the Holding itself, rather then having to transport an empty mule there first.

+1 but that only helps with the very first mule run of the day. The last two days I have spent about 20 hours catching up on the last month or twos back logs and moved roughly 30,000 bulk (18,000 currently in a small holding waiting to move further and another 12,000 in a holding closer to home) and being able to grab a mule remotely would not make a huge difference.

Mule trains with multiple mules would help a lot. What has not helped recently is a new bug that prevents you running multiple instances of the game in some win10 installs as you are now limited to one mule per PC.

What is NOT a good plan is to wipe all the work of people that put the hours in over the past two years moving the current stocks. One of our KP members literally put 15 or more hours a week in for over a year moving bulk single handed. SHe would not be happy to have people come in and say "hey we never bothered with this stuff cos it was too much hard work but now everyone else who did put in the hard work has an unfair advantage over us, so please wipe all their stuff … k thanx" .
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Here is a couple of thoughts, in addition to popping mules at the holding:

1) make it so you can chart a course for the mules. Make em follow the roads and make the ability to create new roads. Maybe even give em an npc hireling who represents the guy walking the mule.

That way for those who wanna be more hands off they can automate the boring part but at a risk. In an open world sandbox having mules follow the road create opportunities for say ACTUAL banditry and thus also create the need for actual escorts.

It would also solve a lot of annoying pathing issues we get with mules.

2) Make some buildings placeable on that outer ring of the settlement generate trace amounts of Bulk. Make em raidable too if they arent tended to for a day or two as well. That way we can have some back and forth for raiding as well as a place where we dont have to walk nearly as far in the first place. Thus you can get miniscule amounts that may barely pay for anything OR you you go finding a good hex for Bulk and risk getting hijacked or ambushed for the superior resource production.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of Aragon Alliance and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
I personally agree that it's not fun to move vast quantities of Bulk Resources manually. I worry, though, about something someone said a long time ago - that any time you automate some process that could be manual, you deprive the players of an opportunity. That said, I would like to see something like this:

  • Bulk Resources produced by an Outpost immediately appear in the Outpost Vault (a special withdraw-only Vault) at the beginning of the PvP Window.
  • During the PvP Window, anyone can withdraw from an Outpost Vault. If the Character is not a member of the Company that owns the Outpost, then they are flagged unless there's an active Feud.
  • At the end of the PvP Window, the contents of all Outpost Vaults are immediately moved to the Holding Secure Vault. This quantity is the Daily Produced Bulk Resources, and will be zero for that day if all Bulk Resources are stolen from the Outposts before the end of the PvP Window.
  • Companies can establish Trade Routes, which take the shortest path from the Holding to the Company's Settlement.
  • If a Trade Route exists, 1/23 of the prior Daily Produced Bulk Resources are automatically moved one hex along the Trade Route towards the Settlement every hour (except during downtime).
  • A hex on a Trade Route can be Raided by establishing a Raid Camp in the hex. If the Raid Camp is completed, the Raid Camp immediately converts to a chest containing all the Bulk Resources currently in that hex from all Trade Routes that pass through that Hex. Anyone can loot the chest.
  • A hex on a Trade Route can be Blockaded by establishing a Blockade Camp in the hex. While the Blockade Camp is present, all Bulk Resources passing through that hex from all Trade Routes are diverted to the Blockade Camp Vault (withdraw-only) accessible only to the Company that built the Blockade Camp. Destroying the Blockade Camp would use the same mechanic as capturing a Holding, but could occur at any time without a Feud, at which time the contents of the Blockade Camp Vault are placed in a chest accessible to anyone.
  • Establishing Raid Camps or Blockade Camps does not cause flags unless the Camp is built in a hex that contains a Holding with a Trade Route.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
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