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archers ammo and ranged attacks

Maxen
And I thought about this after posting. To balance it, you could making switching weapons a 'move action' to borrow from tabletop. There could be some sort of attack delay penalty or cool down built in so you don't have players simply going back and forth to take advantage of combinations between both weapons. That may have been what Paddy meant about being unbalanced.
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Daredevil longbow or wizard for instance and something else entirely for pure melee for fighters.

Clerics would certainly get a huge buff, especially hybrid clerics, if they can switch role features depending on weapon.

The main thing though about multiple role features is Expendables. Now I can switch between roles with different Expendables and get all the keywords for both. Rogue Expendables in melee got you down? Get the feature for holdout weapon. There would have to be a lot of balance testing.

Now it is true that to get to T3 for both you would have to multi class so maybe that could be one balance. Still, for T2 it would be that hard to just give
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Flari-Merchant
Maxen
Mistwalker
Paddy Fitzpatrick
I can see that getting horrendously unbalanced really fast depending on the combinations.

Apparently I am missing something, could you elaborate and/or provide an example?

Right. I might get two or three shots off with the bow before the enemy closes. I'm not sure that's really unbalanced. That's just being smart with my available attacks. And in truth (and I don't know if this exists now or not because I've never checked my stats), there should actually be a penalty for using a bow in melee.

Indeed. If you have quick attacks available, it should not be too hard to interrupt a character using ranged attacks but standing within your melee range…. perhaps scaled up or down by comparing each toon's particular weapon skill and specific attacks used.

That is probably beyond the scope of possible on the tight schedule GW has set for itself.
You are a Troll
Having two Feature Feat slots is a terrible idea.

Star Knife certainly needs ammo, just like all the rest of the ranged attacks will.

And if you are going to require ammo for ranged attacks, then they should all be un-rooted. All of them.
Mistwalker
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Daredevil longbow or wizard for instance and something else entirely for pure melee for fighters.

Clerics would certainly get a huge buff, especially hybrid clerics, if they can switch role features depending on weapon.

The main thing though about multiple role features is Expendables. Now I can switch between roles with different Expendables and get all the keywords for both. Rogue Expendables in melee got you down? Get the feature for holdout weapon. There would have to be a lot of balance testing.

Now it is true that to get to T3 for both you would have to multi class so maybe that could be one balance. Still, for T2 it would be that hard to just give

Apparently my indepth knowledge of the game mechanics are lacking. I am only seeing a few game terms, but not seeing how it would be unbalanced.
Duffy Swiftshadow
Mistwalker
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Daredevil longbow or wizard for instance and something else entirely for pure melee for fighters.

Clerics would certainly get a huge buff, especially hybrid clerics, if they can switch role features depending on weapon.

The main thing though about multiple role features is Expendables. Now I can switch between roles with different Expendables and get all the keywords for both. Rogue Expendables in melee got you down? Get the feature for holdout weapon. There would have to be a lot of balance testing.

Now it is true that to get to T3 for both you would have to multi class so maybe that could be one balance. Still, for T2 it would be that hard to just give

Apparently my indepth knowledge of the game mechanics are lacking. I am only seeing a few game terms, but not seeing how it would be unbalanced.

Well for one it would double 'upper power level limit'. An old enough character would be able to kill you really well with two weapons, two sets of expendables, etc… Today that's not really possible, outside of weapons (one of which is weaker if they aren't the same type) a character's effective power at a given moment in the field is limited to some hard mechanical decisions. Sure they could have a bunch of different classes maxed out if they were old enough, but they can really only use one at a time at it's full potential. Imagine if I could run around swapping between full Rogue and full Cleric in combat on the fly just because my character is 3 years old. It pushes the max power limit farther away from day 1 and makes awkward balance issues, like everyone running full cleric as a secondary for the healing ability (which is already kind of a 'problem' in the vaguest sense).
Huran
I play an archer who happens to be pretty dang good at both melee and ranged and I never have to swap feats in the middle of battle, in fact I only have one armor feat and one feature trained.
"Circles of power, gathered by EARTH, welcomed by GOLD, in strife and in mirth. Focused by CRYSTAL, guided by LIGHT, showing the way, by day and by night. wrought in IRON, strengthened by STEEL, together we stand, in wrack and in weal. Hidden in SHADOW, explored by WOOD, we circle together, for the greater good." –Maxikyd– http://www.kotcguild.com/
Bob
Mistwalker
Bob, you have talked about how ranged characters should probably have a melee weapon as back up. This has a certain amount of sense for fighter, rogues and clerics. However, it doesn't make a lot of sense for a mage.

Most mages that I know of have a staff and a wand. Learning weapon feats will require yet more XP and raising another attribute to be able to use them.

Can I ask what your thoughts are on this?

That's a big part of why mages have such a mix of attack feats. Rather than needing a backup melee/non-ammo weapon, the important point for them is to have backup melee/non-ammo feats for their staff and/or wand.
Bob
Maxen
This is one thing I've never understood. You give me two weapon slots, but I can only slot one weapon feat at a time as if I've 'forgotten' how to attack effectively with the other weapon. I have always enjoyed playing my 'rangers' even post-nerf. I attack from range until the monster closes and then I switch to melee, as this seems logical. I feel like I should be able to slot two weapon feats, paying the appropriate XP to level them individually, and benefit from the different attack bonuses when I switch weapons.

Part of the point of the feature feats is to have you pick a primary role for each combat, since the ability to do multiple roles equally is itself a big advantage. You're either saying "I"m an archer, but I've got a knife just in case" or "I'm a swordfighter, but I'm not above putting an arrow into a monster first." That helps us balance properly between the different roles, and also creates more interesting interactions between party members when each plays to their strengths instead of everyone being able to do a bit of everything.

Paddy Fitzpatrick
You are a Troll
Having two Feature Feat slots is a terrible idea.

Star Knife certainly needs ammo, just like all the rest of the ranged attacks will.

And if you are going to require ammo for ranged attacks, then they should all be un-rooted. All of them.

That would certainly be nice.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
 
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