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Settlement Warfare is on the March

Paddy Fitzpatrick
So some of us in the Coalition were talking and here's a question:

Will there be PvP windows for attacking the siege engines? If that mechanic is going to be used, our thinking is to have the window be determined by the defending settlement, not the attacking one.

That way, the defenders choose when they want to attempt to break the siege, rather than having the attackers decide when they feel like defending their siege equipment.

Otherwise, if I were an attacker I'd just put up my siege weapons, set it to a weekend only time or something, and just kick back and have a drink with all the free time I will have and free siege damage I will get.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Hobson Fiffledown
You going to at least add some black/white lists or permissions for settlements first, or can an invader just make all the siege stuff right inside the besieged settlement?
This space for rent.
Bob
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Are there gonna be siege defenses we can build? Maybe like a fort or something like that to guard the hex against it or maybe something that can be built in town to fire back against the camps or weaken them?

We do want to add more interesting defense options eventually, but for now we're keeping this pretty simple. Your first layer of defense is to put upgraded holdings and outposts in the neighboring hexes so that attackers to make it as difficult as possible for attackers to take those hexes from you and place siege buildings there. Your second layer o is to keep lots of bulk goods in the Settlement Upkeep vault, so that the siege will have to spend more time grinding through bulk goods before it can start damaging your structures. Third is to build as many structures as you can, so that more structures need to be destroyed before you lose control of the settlement. Even the Infrastructure buildings are useful in that regard since they'll be the first to go before you start losing more valuable structures.

Those are all things settlements can do right now to strengthen themselves against attack. When settlement warfare actually kicks in, it will also be important to keep your Settlement Level reasonably high (since we'll be using the level at the time a siege starts to calculate the settlement's defense in a not-yet-fully-defined way) and to pick a long-term PvP window that your settlement can best defend (since there will likely be restrictions on changing the window once a siege starts). However, there's no need to worry about adjusting those things yet, just be aware that they'll be important considerations.
Bob
Paddy Fitzpatrick
So some of us in the Coalition were talking and here's a question:

Will there be PvP windows for attacking the siege engines? If that mechanic is going to be used, our thinking is to have the window be determined by the defending settlement, not the attacking one.

That way, the defenders choose when they want to attempt to break the siege, rather than having the attackers decide when they feel like defending their siege equipment.

Otherwise, if I were an attacker I'd just put up my siege weapons, set it to a weekend only time or something, and just kick back and have a drink with all the free time I will have and free siege damage I will get.

We're hoping to find an easy way to implement having the PvP windows for Siege Engines match those of the neighboring settlement, but if we can't, we're looking at requiring the attackers to in some sense overlap the defender's PvP window as best they can. A lot of this system will have to be GM-adjudicated initially (much like our current system for taking over inactive settlements), so we'll solve these kinds of issues through policies and GM intervention rather than in-game mechanics when necessary.
Bob
Hobson Fiffledown
You going to at least add some black/white lists or permissions for settlements first, or can an invader just make all the siege stuff right inside the besieged settlement?

That's a good point. We almost definitely can't get in a full crafting permissions system as part of this initial implementation, but this is worth thinking about a bit more to see what could be done reasonably efficiently to discourage or prevent it.
Flari-Merchant
Well you are DOING Something to stir the pot! I like that very much! Here are a few things that I feel bad for posting since I have been one of those screaming for ANYTHING to jazz up the play. I feel bad because I know that this is a thing that is possible and within reach of accomplishment and now some of us are going to complain about it.

Pro: You are thinking outside the box to add a feature that, even though mostly manual, is another step toward PVP for reasons.
Pro: In an unexpected way, you have found a method to make Bulk Resources have some value which makes holdings more important again. This will lead to new reasons to trade and to be diplomatic.
Con: Many of your players are on hiatus or waiting to see adequate funding and forward motion. I am ok with this because… "you snooze, you lose" but I doubt that those waiting will appreciate it much. I have my doubts that this will bring back more than a small portion of those players or that very many active players will use the feature…
because,
Con: Sieges will be expensive, time consuming, and something that you do only if you really HATE(RP wise, in the most friendly OoC way possible) another group AND there is no material reward. There is no loot mentioned. There is only a few players taking ghost towns away from a few other players, at great expense.
Suggested: Find a way for LOOT to be part of the equation. Find a way to make it a COIN SINK. Find a way to block Bulk Resources from being deposited to the settlement upkeep vault so long as there are 6(a complete encirclement) siege holdings, but allow them to be smuggled in if there are gaps in the circle, i.e.5 or less Holdings.
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Alright so I got one more question and some concerns…

So when it comes to actually taking a settlement, so if I understand this right, we destroy their settlement, all of the settlement buildings are completely gone, and then we have to claim it as if it were an unclaimed settlement and so we don't get the buildings that the settlement we are conquering had?

Combined with the concerns brought about invaders making stuff inside an enemy settlement, if I lose say my settlement, the winner gets nothing but a settlement they have to rebuild with an even greater amount of resources from scratch? There would also be no incentive to reconquer them from the losers either and nothing for the winners to build on.

Along with that, all the losers have to do is build stuff somewhere else (either in a foreign settlement or NPC town), and the only thing worth doing is leveling the enemy's home settlements. Then the enemy has no incentive to reconquer their own homeland, so they flatten another enemy settlement, and so on and so forth.

So if we don't get anything from beating an enemy besides a flattened piece of rubble to try to rebuild, what is this siege warfare going to accomplish then? Seems like it is either to conquer the remaining empty settlements or to just stick it to some faction you hate.

I just worry that with everything getting flattened in the sieges, with enough back and forth you basically get people only being able to build out of NPC towns and everyone flattening each other because taking their own land back is pointless.

It seems the finality of not just losing the settlement but all settlement buildings and assets being destroyed will just be some negative feedback loop. I'm worried after a while there ain't gonna be anything left to fight over, or fight from.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Thing is, if you can't keep any of the buildings from the enemy settlement that you take over, there won't be any back and forth like in an actual war. There is no point if the default result is flattening and there are no options of having actual spoils of war.

I have no desire for a new flattened piece of rubble to put even more time and effort to start over from scratch, especially if it can get knocked down again. I definitely won't have a desire to get MY settlement back if I wont even have some of my former settlement left to take back. I have no incentive to try to retake my flattened rubble that was once a settlement when I know I can flatten an enemy settlement and do a lot more damage.

This is where I am worried that this could easily turn into a downward spiral.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Flari-Merchant
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Thing is, if you can't keep any of the buildings from the enemy settlement that you take over, there won't be any back and forth like in an actual war. There is no point if the default result is flattening and there are no options of having actual spoils of war.

I have no desire for a new flattened piece of rubble to put even more time and effort to start over from scratch, especially if it can get knocked down again. I definitely won't have a desire to get MY settlement back if I wont even have some of my former settlement left to take back. I have no incentive to try to retake my flattened rubble that was once a settlement when I know I can flatten an enemy settlement and do a lot more damage.

This is where I am worried that this could easily turn into a downward spiral.

What I am thinking is that there should be a "disabled" state for In-Settlement buildings instead of totally destroyed. There should be material gain "possible"(if there is any there to begin with).
The problem with complicating the planned features(as they seem to be laid out) is that what we would want is probably an amount of modification that makes the whole thing beyond reach right now.
Commander Nefarious Robert Haagen-Takasi Grand Lich Ruler of Tre Rotterguard Deserters
Paddy Fitzpatrick
This is where I am worried that this could easily turn into a downward spiral.

Well as a settlement leader you really can't go anywhere but down right?

Aren't you all the top of the top? Where else is there to go from here?

What is the next step?

Bathe in more riches and glory and pats on the backs?

The consultant returns with horrid news and the server shuts down? All for not? Chargebacks? Lawsuits? Millions wasted?

Perhaps input from people who haven't even played the game yet is in order. I'm sure they'd see more than enough incentive to knock a few of you down to size.

What have you fellows, a bang or a whimper?
 
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