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Siege Engines and Camps

Smitty
To your 99.99999% sure

Will have a better answer in a couple days… because I was talking this over with someone just this past weekend. They assured me I didn’t have to tear down what was there ( perhaps I misunderstood but what I described of tearing them down and rebuilding them and then having to generate the influence that was lost was exactly what they said I didn’t have to do).
What was relayed to me was have upgraded outpost on me in my inventory and upgrade it…
Will try it myself soon - and let you know
About engaging…
Yes I want groups to be vigilant! Every group draws up pretty maps and wants to take huge chunks of the world because they own settlements near a monster hex .. Then they add holdings all over the place. Even if they live 30-40 hexes out from the “controled” the area..

I want groups that spread themselves super thin to have to think about how much of a reach they actually have. If I want to voice my displeasure about it and feud them , I don’t want an appointment fight to start 24 hours late..
We get an hour notice before a feud starts
We pick our own PvP windows
When something is attacked you get notified where it is happening
We have guards to slow down the actual taking of anything…
Surprise attack ?? Just words… and aren’t descriptive of what is happening because if your are surprised- it means you didn’t look…

Right now there is no reason to show up on day one of a feud even with all those things above,

What you are describing as what you want may as well be a battle arena … folks show up when it suits them..
It may also help to understand my view if you see I feel there needs to be some changes to the overall feud system.
Meaning declaring a feud should be something you carefully think over, and should be at the settlement level and not the company level .
I have no problems with companies generating the influence, moving to other settlements, and putting up holdings, But feuding needs to come from the settlement level using the influence pools their settlement controls, that way the group being targeted has targets to retaliate against.
Edam
Duffy Swiftshadow
Good point, even upgrading it again is technically the full cost of the kit, dunno why I didn't realize that.

I'll see if I can try the upgrade thing at some point today, but as far as I know that was talked about but never implemented, could be wrong but I have no recollection of anyone mentioning doing it. I would have upgraded some stuff if that was possible.

The one spot it makes a difference is upgrading holdings as placing a bigger kit over the existing one will not require demolishing everything.

In the more likely scenario of replacing something like a low level inn with a more defensible high level watchtower you still have to demolish everything regardless.
Duffy Swiftshadow
Confirmed that you can upgrade existing outposts and holdings if you have a matching kit with a better + in your inventory by using the outpost/holding management screen. No idea how I missed that getting added.
Duffy Swiftshadow
Smitty
About engaging…
Yes I want groups to be vigilant! Every group draws up pretty maps and wants to take huge chunks of the world because they own settlements near a monster hex .. Then they add holdings all over the place. Even if they live 30-40 hexes out from the “controled” the area..

I want groups that spread themselves super thin to have to think about how much of a reach they actually have. If I want to voice my displeasure about it and feud them , I don’t want an appointment fight to start 24 hours late..
We get an hour notice before a feud starts
We pick our own PvP windows
When something is attacked you get notified where it is happening
We have guards to slow down the actual taking of anything…
Surprise attack ?? Just words… and aren’t descriptive of what is happening because if your are surprised- it means you didn’t look…

Right now there is no reason to show up on day one of a feud even with all those things above,

What you are describing as what you want may as well be a battle arena … folks show up when it suits them..
It may also help to understand my view if you see I feel there needs to be some changes to the overall feud system.
Meaning declaring a feud should be something you carefully think over, and should be at the settlement level and not the company level .
I have no problems with companies generating the influence, moving to other settlements, and putting up holdings, But feuding needs to come from the settlement level using the influence pools their settlement controls, that way the group being targeted has targets to retaliate against.

I agree the system as is does not work and what we have today should really be a settlement level thing, and there's a ton of knock on of issues surround influence and the value of the holdings, etc, etc…

As for the vigilant, it's just not fun. PvP windows are supposed to be your majorities primetime and theirs supposed to be a ton of in-game activities. Spending 3/4 of the average day's playtime standing around or abandoning activities midway through isn't fun.

You can argue that with more people playing it might be less of a problem, but the issue doesn't magically disappear with an increase in scale. It's only lessened if you start with the upper hand numerically. If your opponent can bring X, you need to bring some significant fraction of X to defend. If you have enough that plenty can sit out, cool. But that's not a reliable thing, therefore you have to assume from a mechanics case that 'everyone' who can be there for a side must be there for a side in most conflicts. Therefore no matter how spread out you are or not (which is a logistics problem not a feud timing problem), you need to be vigilant every single day with the maximum number of people. Ergo, not fun.

Realistically, players are only going to attack when they have a good chance of winning anyways, which means when they significantly outnumber their opponent. Right now that's the only way to win a holding fight, their is no incremental or clever tactics progress, it's numbers and gear, that's it. It's the same old general problem with blob mechanics. Sure you can argue some corner cases, but it's a bunch of things are all very conditional and very uncommon, ergo not something you can assume will always be generally true for a particular use of the mechanic.

This is why infinite feuding sucks, because even if the attacker can't win going head to head, they can keep you on edge and decide to attack when you finally can't keep it up anymore. The only defensive options to that is to stay vigilant or attack their stuff, which right now does nothing anyways. If it stopped their ability to feud, that might be something, but it doesn't nor does it seem like it ever is part of the plan. If you do go on the counter offensive you can easily find yourself getting into the trap of 'trading' holdings instead of fighting over ownership of territory.

As I said, it's a giant mess of things that doesn't work that well.
Harad Navar
And I have noticed that some holdings have already been upgrade from +0.
Knowledge can explain the darkness, but it is not a light.
Midnight
You need level 9 to build the weakest siege camp.

Thornkeep only supports to level 8, right?

So, the only people who can build siege camps are people who already have settlements?

So basically, new guilds have no reason to subscribe?

Those driven out of a settlement to Thornkeep won't be able to build the siege camps they'd need to ever retake their settlement?

If I'm not wrong about Thornkeep's support level it seems like on the first day people ought to be trying to destroy settlements until theirs is the only one remaining, at which point no opponents can build siege camps.

Well, at least that makes it easy to declare a winner and turn the lights out.

If Thornkeep does support level 9, then feel free to tell me I'm mistaken.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Edam
Currently you can even build them in the enemy settlement as your craft levels are not effected by dropping settlment and you can craft anywhere.

Also .. I suppose you could pay someone to make them smile

In the current game there a few settlements about that pretty much would accept any company providing you can actually get in touch with them. Tracking down a leader to accept your application will probably be the big issue.

Longterm, in the unusual situation that someone refuses to (or has upset so many groups is unable to) join any settlement at all it may be an issue.

It has always been a bit odd that TK supports the same level training as the small NPC settlements though I suspect the solution to that is to lower the training at all NPC locations other than Rotters and TK, rather than raise TK.

Bear in mind that under the original design of the game someone in that situation would not just have trouble building siege engines, they also would only have had level 9 support so it could have been worse smile

QUESTION: Do siege engines cost influence to erect in addition to the feud costs ?
Midnight
It just makes no sense that the only people who can make siege camps are the people who don't *need* them (because they already have a settlement).

wait, dropping settlement doesn't affect crafting levels???????

Seriously?
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Duffy Swiftshadow
Edam
QUESTION: Do siege engines cost influence to erect in addition to the feud costs ?

Yes, check Bob's posts in this thread.

Midnight
wait, dropping settlement doesn't affect crafting levels???????

Seriously?

I can confirm that one: losing settlement support no impact on which recipes you can craft on that character once they have learned the recipe.
Bob
I believe that crafting without settlement support will lower the amount of skill bonuses you get while crafting, so there is a disadvantage, but you don't forget your recipes.

Similarly, crafting in a settlement with lower support (such as an NPC settlement) still lets you craft any recipe you know, but the facility ratings are lower, so the crafting jobs will take longer.
 
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