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Start Healing at the Start of One Wound

Duffy Swiftshadow
Decius
If it cost 500 influence to build a holding and outposts up to +3 but only 100 influence to feud an equal-sized company and try to capture an existing one (and drop it an upgrade level?

If there is no 'recoup' of banked influence (or we only recoup 25% or less) I think it could work. Based on your figures from the other thread I think the concerns with bulk is more a problem of it's accessibility than a problem with people stockpiling. Stockpiling could always be a thing, but in the meantime tightening up the required territory control for bulk output to training/support level could allow us to start simulating ideal circumstances without having to worry too much about scaling.

The more I think about it the more I kinda like it. It has the potential to simulate the ideal territory situation for an ideal population while fixing the current problem of relying on un-subbed accounts to artificially boost caps. It is also more likely to generate border tension as we expand to hit our target numbers, which under the current system is just not gonna happen until hundreds of players show up. That tension could generate some economic pressure even if we take turns burning down each others edge holdings and occasionally fighting.

I think the idea has merit, I can't come up with a downside besides potential bulk inflation (that is always possible anyways) that we don't already have today. It might just shake things up in a good way, or worse case nothing really changes.
Bob
Decius
Would it make sense to just remove influence caps entirely, and also remove or drastically reduce the recovery of "banked" influence when it is cleared? Maybe also adjust influence in and costs?

We have in fact considered temporarily removing the influence caps (technically, we'd just make them ridiculously high). We have concerns similar to those raised here, but after a quick discussion, we've decided to go ahead and make that change for EE 12.

I'll also look at reducing the percentage of banked influence that gets recovered, though I'm less worried about that side of things. Plus, that wouldn't kick in for anyone who doesn't feud and never loses a holding or outpost. Still, it's a trivial spreadsheet change and might at least partially offset this change.

As for changing the influence requirements of things, that's more of a problem. In particular, once somethings banked, we don't currently re-check those values. That means buildings placed before a change would be based on the original values, while those placed afterward would be based on the new values. I'd like to avoid dealing with that for now.
Fiery
I support this change, it's an elegant way to resolve some current issues. Good job Decius (and development staff for however much you'd considered it previously!).
Starchild
Bob
We have in fact considered temporarily removing the influence caps (technically, we'd just make them ridiculously high). We have concerns similar to those raised here, but after a quick discussion, we've decided to go ahead and make that change for EE 12.

This would fix my concerns. Carpe Noctem is very active and I am confident we could quickly recover the influence needed to maintain viable levels.
Doom! Nightstalkers, evil crafters and bandits, Oh my!
Flari-Merchant
I am not opposed to all the current players being able to flesh out their Holding capability so that they can support 20. They deserve not to be burdened with reduced capabilities for sticking loyally with the game, at the least.

One thing that does concern me: If there is no way to drain off the excess Influence(lost/torn down holdings, feuds, etc…smile
1. there will not be anywhere for new players to build unless lands are given them by established Vets <—can't stress how bad that will be for OE
2. if there ends up having to be a reckoning for all of these inflated Companies, it will be even more devastating
Duffy Swiftshadow
Bringslite of Staalgard
I am not opposed to all the current players being able to flesh out their Holding capability so that they can support 20. They deserve not to be burdened with reduced capabilities for sticking loyally with the game, at the least.

One thing that does concern me: If there is no way to drain off the excess Influence(lost/torn down holdings, feuds, etc…smile
1. there will not be anywhere for new players to build unless lands are given them by established Vets <—can't stress how bad that will be for OE
2. if there ends up having to be a reckoning for all of these inflated Companies, it will be even more devastating

That is technically always going to be a problem once we hit some decent population. There was never gonna be any empty territory if things had gone as hoped. This will just simulate it, but don't forget the larger you spread the harder it will be to defend it all and new groups would also benefit from the lack of an influence cap. The thing they can't work around though is their lack of XP, which is by design.
Flari-Merchant
Duffy Swiftshadow
Bringslite of Staalgard
I am not opposed to all the current players being able to flesh out their Holding capability so that they can support 20. They deserve not to be burdened with reduced capabilities for sticking loyally with the game, at the least.

One thing that does concern me: If there is no way to drain off the excess Influence(lost/torn down holdings, feuds, etc…smile
1. there will not be anywhere for new players to build unless lands are given them by established Vets <—can't stress how bad that will be for OE
2. if there ends up having to be a reckoning for all of these inflated Companies, it will be even more devastating

That is technically always going to be a problem once we hit some decent population. There was never gonna be any empty territory if things had gone as hoped. This will just simulate it, but don't forget the larger you spread the harder it will be to defend it all and new groups would also benefit from the lack of an influence cap. The thing they can't work around though is their lack of XP, which is by design.
I am not so sure that will be enough to overcome the perception that there is no where to "stake your own claim" or "build your on spot" or whatever without having to either make a deal with the nasty old fart "Lords of Everything" or try and take a spot from those same guys with such a power differential between you…

If PfO is a niche game and going for a niche audience, then WHAT exactly are the "Niche" features that it offers?

Edit: Now if GW where going to expand the map at the start of OE and have influence, holding kit, etc… packages for newbs, that might not be such a problem…
Bob
This semi-unlimited influence is only intended to be very temporary. We have some thoughts on a more permanent solution and believe we can fit something into the schedule, but we're not quite sure exactly when we'll be ready and able to do so.

When we do get something put in, some companies will fairly quickly find themselves with insufficient influence if they've spread too far. There aren't any specific numbers I could warn people about going beyond at this time, but I'd just say that if you really have to push yourselves to earn the influence to get those buildings placed/upgraded now, there's a good chance you won't be able to keep them later.
Edam
Bringslite of Staalgard
Duffy Swiftshadow
Bringslite of Staalgard
I am not opposed to all the current players being able to flesh out their Holding capability so that they can support 20. They deserve not to be burdened with reduced capabilities for sticking loyally with the game, at the least.

One thing that does concern me: If there is no way to drain off the excess Influence(lost/torn down holdings, feuds, etc…smile
1. there will not be anywhere for new players to build unless lands are given them by established Vets <—can't stress how bad that will be for OE
2. if there ends up having to be a reckoning for all of these inflated Companies, it will be even more devastating

That is technically always going to be a problem once we hit some decent population. There was never gonna be any empty territory if things had gone as hoped. This will just simulate it, but don't forget the larger you spread the harder it will be to defend it all and new groups would also benefit from the lack of an influence cap. The thing they can't work around though is their lack of XP, which is by design.
I am not so sure that will be enough to overcome the perception that there is no where to "stake your own claim" or "build your on spot" or whatever without having to either make a deal with the nasty old fart "Lords of Everything" or try and take a spot from those same guys with such a power differential between you…

If PfO is a niche game and going for a niche audience, then WHAT exactly are the "Niche" features that it offers?

Edit: Now if GW where going to expand the map at the start of OE and have influence, holding kit, etc… packages for newbs, that might not be such a problem…
To be bluntly honest unless the game resets every 12 months for the next 20 years or so there will ALWAYS be new players whining that it is impossible to catch up.

If you reset the entire game right now (or nerf existing players to the point they all leave) while it does mean the next batch of new players will get a fresh start … ONCE they get established in a year or so they will just become the new privileged vets and there will be yet another batch of newbies upset about how to "catch up". The problem will never go away.

If we are going to get all obsessed about "every new player needs to have their bit of the map" we absolutely must reset the game every year or so, make current gear out of date and need replacing with the "better stuff in the new patch" and run it as a churn game. Even with a total reset the groups with established comms, doctrines and contacts will do far better but I suppose maybe the imaginary hordes of new player who apparently want to rock in and be awesome and take stuff in their first few weeks might at least feel they are in with a chance.

Aside from the obvious fact that players with money for multiple subs, the free time to play 24/7 and lots of friends in game will do better in ANY game, this is MEANT to be a long term territorial game not something where the main attraction is you can come in do some scrappy small gang PvP and a bit of 1v1 to pad your killmail list and take other players stuff and put a flag up and claim it to gain some sort of ego boost and street cred.

That goes against everything this game was originally marketed as aiming for. People that like to PvP in tiny gangs of 6 or less players or roam solo were always meant to be the minority and occupy something of a niche. The fact that a few vocal forum denisons have campaigned non stop to turn this game into a scrappy small gang territorial gank fest does make that the new purpose of the game.
Flari-Merchant
Edam
Bringslite of Staalgard
Duffy Swiftshadow
Bringslite of Staalgard
I am not opposed to all the current players being able to flesh out their Holding capability so that they can support 20. They deserve not to be burdened with reduced capabilities for sticking loyally with the game, at the least.

One thing that does concern me: If there is no way to drain off the excess Influence(lost/torn down holdings, feuds, etc…smile
1. there will not be anywhere for new players to build unless lands are given them by established Vets <—can't stress how bad that will be for OE
2. if there ends up having to be a reckoning for all of these inflated Companies, it will be even more devastating

That is technically always going to be a problem once we hit some decent population. There was never gonna be any empty territory if things had gone as hoped. This will just simulate it, but don't forget the larger you spread the harder it will be to defend it all and new groups would also benefit from the lack of an influence cap. The thing they can't work around though is their lack of XP, which is by design.
I am not so sure that will be enough to overcome the perception that there is no where to "stake your own claim" or "build your on spot" or whatever without having to either make a deal with the nasty old fart "Lords of Everything" or try and take a spot from those same guys with such a power differential between you…

If PfO is a niche game and going for a niche audience, then WHAT exactly are the "Niche" features that it offers?

Edit: Now if GW where going to expand the map at the start of OE and have influence, holding kit, etc… packages for newbs, that might not be such a problem…
To be bluntly honest unless the game resets every 12 months for the next 20 years or so there will ALWAYS be new players whining that it is impossible to catch up.

If you reset the entire game right now (or nerf existing players to the point they all leave) while it does mean the next batch of new players will get a fresh start … ONCE they get established in a year or so they will just become the new privileged vets and there will be yet another batch of newbies upset about how to "catch up". The problem will never go away.

If we are going to get all obsessed about "every new player needs to have their bit of the map" we absolutely must reset the game every year or so, make current gear out of date and need replacing with the "better stuff in the new patch" and run it as a churn game. Even with a total reset the groups with established comms, doctrines and contacts will do far better but I suppose maybe the imaginary hordes of new player who apparently want to rock in and be awesome and take stuff in their first few weeks might at least feel they are in with a chance.

Aside from the obvious fact that players with money for multiple subs, the free time to play 24/7 and lots of friends in game will do better in ANY game, this is MEANT to be a long term territorial game not something where the main attraction is you can come in do some scrappy small gang PvP and a bit of 1v1 to pad your killmail list and take other players stuff and put a flag up and claim it to gain some sort of ego boost and street cred.

That goes against everything this game was originally marketed as aiming for. People that like to PvP in tiny gangs of 6 or less players or roam solo were always meant to be the minority and occupy something of a niche. The fact that a few vocal forum denisons have campaigned non stop to turn this game into a scrappy small gang territorial gank fest does make that the new purpose of the game.

It's pretty obvious(to me at least) that the game is cruising toward some sort of territory churn, by design. So that might help mitigate things as far as being able to, AFTER players have gotten some levels and Influence and materials under their belt, carve out a spot for themselves. Will that be enough? I don't know.

I do know that one of the most attractive things about any of these sandboxes(past or present) is being able to "have a bit of the map". The first thing I did every time that I returned to UO over the years was explore EVERYWHERE in search of an open house spot and start grinding for the gold to buy the deed to one that would fit. Yet I shouldn't assume that it is the be all and end all Deal Breaker for all prospective players.

In any case, the method of how new players would go about getting their own settlement(short of taking by force) isn't part of the design of the current roadmap for OE anyway. I suppose that GW doesn't think it is a "highly important" feature for attracting and keeping new players. I hope that call is correct.
 
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