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Thank You Lisa, for Hope and the Road Map.

Tyncale
goldenradish
Read through the email..

It's really unfortunate that goblinworks is continuing down this demonstrated path of failure. It's not really that hard to understand: The existing and outlined future feature set has not and will never gather a sufficient population to make this game a financially viable product or service.

Attempting to "finish" the feature set that has not gathered a sufficient population in an attempt to make this game a financially viable product is just throwing good time & money after bad. I see no logic in it, and I will tell everyone I know to stay away until someone else purchases/licenses the Pathfinder intellectual property and makes a product worthy of the Pathfinder name.

You know how to make a financially viable product or service, and yet deliberately choose not to? Why would anyone continue to support such a path? smile The lack of financial responsibility is frankly astonishing to me.

I hear what you are saying, I had a similar feeling, but to me the original roadmap was what drew me to the game, so there is still an inkling of hope left that this roadmap is actually a viable path. I keep telling myself (fooling myself?) that for some reason they never reached critical mass to get the ball rolling. Actually I brought many reasons for that up myself in the last 2 years, as have others. Many of those arguments undoubtedly based on being ill-informed bystanders but still.

But it indeed seems that Lisa, Bob and Cole are continuing on the same path, with a few tweaks that I think will be good. This means that the goals are still as lofty, unprecedented and untried in the MMO space, while the money is tighter then ever and the team smaller then any other indie team I know off (other then the Project Gorgon team).

So I am torn between my love for the original roadmap (which they are still following) and the fact that it seems that this roadmap will never be delivered. There is still this list of Indie companies that have to be checked for interest, and then there are the mystery "tens of thousands" that are waiting to be pulled in to give the game a try so there are still some things to look forward to. If anything, it will be interesting to see the reactions of the Steamlight crowd. smile

Again, I am not being mean here: I think the Steam community will make short work of PFO's concept and state-of-the-game, but I also think this game has a few draws to it that can not be found in *any* other game on the market right now. And these draws are already in the game, not just in some future roadmap. So I actually think we may see hundreds of those tens of thousands actually stick after the massacre.

The big question is, will they want to stick for 15 dollars a month?

For me the unique draws are:

1) One world. One world that houses *all* players to this game. No instancing, no *Mega* servers, no /pickzone, no limits. Actually I have always been wondering how they will ever pull this off when there are actually thousands of players but so far they seem to have made the Hex-world work. Big fat kudos for that. The above is a huge draw for me personally.

2) A Builders and Bullies game. I always saw the concpet as something where you need thousands of Builders who meticulously Harvest, Transport, Organize, Trade, Craft and Build huge sandcastles: and then you need a bunch of Bullies who want to trample it all down. The big challenge here is to balance the Builders and the Bullies. I always figured that you need way more Builders then Bullies, but the beauty of it is, that Builders can turn into Bullies in this game and vice versa. The old adagio of Builders=PvE lovers and Bullies=PvP lovers could be turned into something much more complex. I always figured this was PFO's big challenge, and I feel it has already succeeded in this in some way, even with the game so unfinished and with such a low pop. It certainly shows promise that this can be pulled off.

Right now it's just Builders though so the dynamic is gone.

3. Roles and the Paper Doll. Even though its pretty unintuitive and often incomprehensable, it is also pretty unique. All the systems working together for playerpower (Roles, SKills, Expendables, Power, Equipment slots, keywords) is a unique proposition that already is keeping lots of people busy. I think this will always be an important draw to RPG and MMO lovers. It is just unfinished, unbalanced and sometimes clunky now.

4.Social Games and Politics. I have never seen a game where players are so thrown back on eachother as here. This only could have gotten better over time.

5. The escalation system. Right now it has been turned off mostly, but I always found this a hugely interesting concept. I still remember how the Molochs had infested every hex and then some around Callambea, and how much fun it was to hunt there. It truly felt as an NPC invasion of the lands around Callambea. All kinds of cool dynamics were planned for Escalations, including Players using them to their advantage, so I really hope this will be expanded on. Hearing Bob, I think it will be. smile Bob, looking forward to hearing a bit more detail about the PvE, thanks for that.

6. The "pay for a limited amount of xp per month" thing. This is personal: I am afraid that this feature might actually be the real deathknell for this game.

Writing this it only makes it more clear that this game actually needs a good infusion of money. Anyway, I think I am ready for another year of (false?) hope. smile It seems that the game is here to stay for at least another year, which I applaud.

If anything, Lisa, Bob and co have had a game running for over 2 years now which is pretty neat and commendable in the current landscape of failed and/or abandoned Indy *and* Triple A projects.

NB: I keep talking about Steam Greenlight being the potential "tens of thousands", but it just dawned to me that Lisa might be contemplating some sort of interesting Trial for the Paizo crowd. A trial with a little more oomph to it then the current trial, like "try it for 8 weeks, get 3 months of XP for free plus this cool new Monsterbook-pdf".

Why is this game still keeping me occupied? smile
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Flari-Merchant
A question(with a lil bit of a parameter set :p) for GW:
When you look at the last year or so of participating player base(hangers-on) and how they play and what they say they want, do you see PVP enthusiasts or PVE/Crafting/Gathering/Merchant type PVP enthusiasts?
Decius
I'd increase the priority of the Player Manual, and Fort Inevitable should be on the roadmap somewhere.

I understand that the dungeon and ruin content is probably too costly to implement quickly.

Oh, and proper logs on company and settlement vaults would be nice.
Bob
Decius
I'd increase the priority of the Player Manual, and Fort Inevitable should be on the roadmap somewhere.

Part of the trick with the Player Manual is that the earlier we do it, the more we need to edit it as we make changes. Trying to hit an acceptable balance there.

Fort Inevitable was on the list for discussion, but it likely requires a pretty significant art pass on the terrain, something we don't currently have the resources for. Besides, maybe Pharasma had good reasons for putting the walls up around those hexes.

Decius
I understand that the dungeon and ruin content is probably too costly to implement quickly.

Most definitely.

Decius
Oh, and proper logs on company and settlement vaults would be nice.

That was also on the list for discussion, but requires more work than is obvious to make it useful. As a result, it didn't quite make the cut for now, but will certainly return for consideration in the future.
Edam
Bob
That was also on the list for discussion, but requires more work than is obvious to make it useful. As a result, it didn't quite make the cut for now, but will certainly return for consideration in the future.

The list seems good to me. Just add one low hanging fruit - changing the colour of afflicted to sickly green smile On my monitor afflicted and burning are almost identical shades of yellow.
Bob
Bringslite of Staalgard
A question(with a lil bit of a parameter set :p) for GW:
When you look at the last year or so of participating player base(hangers-on) and how they play and what they say they want, do you see PVP enthusiasts or PVE/Crafting/Gathering/Merchant type PVP enthusiasts?

It's hard to really gauge percentages, but certainly it's clear that a fair amount of our current players (as well as our potential players) have a limited appetite for PvP combat. That's why a lot of the tasks on our roadmap which at first appear to be primarily about PvP or settlement-level issues are really about making it easier for players to manage their own PvP risk. For example, letting settlements choose a 3-day window for PvP means knowing that there's no need to defend your holdings/outposts for 4 days each week. Letting companies set the level of PvP allowed in their hexes lets players control the amount of PvP allowed throughout their territory, while protecting hexes that are neighbored by allies on at least 4 sides makes reducing that territory a much slower process.

That's also why we're moving toward a more opt-in feel to PvP. Our goal is to let players know when the actions they're taking open them up to PvP, and to what degree, then let them decide whether or not to take that risk.
Bob
Edam
The list seems good to me. Just add one low hanging fruit - changing the colour of afflicted to sickly green smile On my monitor afflicted and burning are almost identical shades of yellow.

I'll file a bug report for that, but can't guarantee when it would hit the top of the priority list, even if it does turn out to be an easy fix.

On the other hand, maybe you just need a new monitor. Or new eyes, if you're partially color-blind like me. Green and yellow are not my friends.
Bob
Father Bronin
What are the chances for a t3 escalation? I remember there was talk of one a while back. Demons if I remember correctly. How close was it to being finished? I think some here need a challenge.

The new escalation listed for EE 14 (September) is very likely to be in the T3 range. We don't have any work done on one yet, beyond some rough ideas, so nothing to really announce on that yet. We'll talk about it more as we get closer to working on EE 14.
Bob
Duffy Swiftshadow
I'm pretty pumped about 99% of it, unfortunately it doesn't seem like there is anything in there that would solve the existing problems we have with PvP mechanics, and bringing back support is only going to make that worse.

True, there's not much planned on specific PvP mechanics, though we do hope that some of the changes directed at letting players better control their PvP risk, and at reducing the amount of time companies/settlements need to protect their territory, will reduce the impact of any problematic mechanics on those who are least interested in PvP.

I'll post more details on the support system as a crowforging thread this week, but the basic idea is to still let players have 50% (or more) of the advantages from any learned ranks that they later lost support for. Losing support will still make you less powerful, but won't instantly make you identical to someone who never learned those ranks in the first place.
Edam
Speaking more generally.

Is there any areas players with art skills, database skills, writing/quest creation skills, manual writing skills that wish to contribute unpaid time and are prepared to sign away all IP and meet any non-disclosure requirements can take on tasks that benefit the project (or would doing that just suck up more time managing it than it saves)?

I am aware that anyone having access to the code and mechanics would probably have to give up any player accounts or things will get contentious very quickly however areas like art work and tutorial design should be OK.
 
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