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Restricting Output from Outposts to Upgrade Level of Holding

Bob
The Eternal Balance
Institute the *workers* that were supposed to be assigned to *work* the outpost/holdings and lend their expertise to the output? There are lots of moving/interconnected parts and they can't do everything at once - have to start somewhere, ya know?

We discussed this, but it was also too much work to fit into the roadmap.
Flari-Merchant
As long as the numbers are looked at seriously. I know that there needs be a trade off, an opportunity cost, and a "price" for fronting stronger/more defensible Holdings.
There still remains the fact that moving bulk not only "from" Holdings to Home but from Holding to Holding is a real PITA and NOT FUN. It isn't going to be more fun with more players to share the burden of doing it. Just less "unfun", less often per individual. The same amount of downer, PITA chores affecting MORE players.
Flari-Merchant
Perhaps with "raiding" being added to still having to move Bulk from the field to the "City" there are enough content potential conflict opportunities available. Throw in trading and the chance to interdict, I see specializing Holdings being more efficient and trading more necessary, the numbers could be adjusted so that Holdings can be made self sufficient at all levels?

A compromise to lessen PITA chores?
You are a Troll
Bringslite of Staalgard
As long as the numbers are looked at seriously. I know that there needs be a trade off, an opportunity cost, and a "price" for fronting stronger/more defensible Holdings.
There still remains the fact that moving bulk not only "from" Holdings to Home but from Holding to Holding is a real PITA and NOT FUN. It isn't going to be more fun with more players to share the burden of doing it. Just less "unfun", less often per individual. The same amount of downer, PITA chores affecting MORE players.

The new capacity of the Mule Bags (approximately 9000 at T2+3) do lessen the annoyance some though.
Bob
Bringslite of Staalgard
Perhaps with "raiding" being added to still having to move Bulk from the field to the "City" there are enough content potential conflict opportunities available. Throw in trading and the chance to interdict, I see specializing Holdings being more efficient and trading more necessary, the numbers could be adjusted so that Holdings can be made self sufficient at all levels?

A compromise to lessen PITA chores?

I might be able to adjust the numbers so that most hexes have at least one holding/outpost combo that's self-sufficient at all upgrade levels. Not sure how complicated that would be, and I'd probably want there to often be a more productive option available to those willing to put in the work stocking the proper bulk resources. I don't think there's a problem with there generally being a less-productive-but-minimal-oversight option.
Edam
You are a Troll
The new capacity of the Mule Bags (approximately 9000 at T2+3) do lessen the annoyance some though.

Yep.

When we can actually cash in a mule bag at appropriate holdings (ranches and smallholdings are likely culprits, perhaps inns though that may make inns too useful) that will also help - as you will be able to grab a load as you are passing instead of making a special round trip.
Azure_Zero
Bob
Bringslite of Staalgard
Perhaps with "raiding" being added to still having to move Bulk from the field to the "City" there are enough content potential conflict opportunities available. Throw in trading and the chance to interdict, I see specializing Holdings being more efficient and trading more necessary, the numbers could be adjusted so that Holdings can be made self sufficient at all levels?

A compromise to lessen PITA chores?

I might be able to adjust the numbers so that most hexes have at least one holding/outpost combo that's self-sufficient at all upgrade levels. Not sure how complicated that would be, and I'd probably want there to often be a more productive option available to those willing to put in the work stocking the proper bulk resources. I don't think there's a problem with there generally being a less-productive-but-minimal-oversight option.

There are ALREADY combos that are self-sufficient at +3, and one up to +5 Holdings and +5 outposts;
Forest: Inns (with 60 wood to spare) at +5 settings
Highlands: Shrine (+3,+4)
Plains: Fishery
Decius
Can we anticipate a way to voluntarily transfer holding/outpost ownership betweeen companies without causing structural damage? Lots of decisions were made before any intention of holding level limiting outpost level was mentioned.
Bob
Decius
Can we anticipate a way to voluntarily transfer holding/outpost ownership betweeen companies without causing structural damage? Lots of decisions were made before any intention of holding level limiting outpost level was mentioned.

We'd like to allow transfers eventually, but it would be a fair amount of work to implement and isn't on our already fairly packed schedule. Best I can say at this point is hopefully everyone stockpiled enough bulk goods during these times of plenty to balance out the costs of any necessary teardowns and replacements.
Bob
I've made some changes to the holding upkeep numbers to fix some of the issues raised in this thread.

First, I lowered the overall amount of resources used for higher upgrades significantly. That made it easier to ensure that upgrading from +4 to +5 would usually lead to an overall increase in production. In some cases, where hexes don't have anything in abundance, things may top out at a lower upgrade.

Second, I raised the overall amount of resources used for lower upgrades a fair amount. That flattens out the influence cost curve between upgrading an existing hex and taking over a new hex. It's still generally better to take a new hex than to upgrade an existing hex, but not by nearly as great a margin as before.

Third, I varied up the amounts per resource to require lots of the first resource, a moderate amount of the second resource, and just a bit of the third resource. That makes it easier to be self-sufficient as long as you can produce lots of whatever's abundant in the hex and some of whatever's next most abundant. If you can manage to produce at least a bit of the third resource (or mule/carry a little bit in), then you can get a noticeable boost in efficiency, but it's not such a huge difference that it basically becomes a requirement.

I left all the resource types alone and just altered the numbers for each resource. As an example, here are the new upkeep numbers for Inn Holdings:

+0: Bulk Food 11
+1: Bulk Food 14, Trade Goods 2
+2: Bulk Food 18, Trade Goods 4
+3: Bulk Food 22, Trade Goods 6, Bulk Wood 1
+4: Bulk Food 26, Trade Goods 9, Bulk Wood 2
+5: Bulk Food 30, Trade Goods 12, Bulk Wood 4

For comparison, these were the old numbers:

+0: Bulk Food 2
+1: Bulk Food 4, Trade Goods 3
+2: Bulk Food 8, Trade Goods 8
+3: Bulk Food 10, Trade Goods 10, Bulk Wood 10
+4: Bulk Food 17, Trade Goods 17, Bulk Wood 16
+5: Bulk Food 26, Trade Goods 26, Bulk Wood 25

The numbers are the same for every holding type, only the resource types change, same as before.

Comments/concerns?


 
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