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Restricting Output from Outposts to Upgrade Level of Holding

Flari-Merchant
Bob
I've made some changes to the holding upkeep numbers to fix some of the issues raised in this thread.

First, I lowered the overall amount of resources used for higher upgrades significantly. That made it easier to ensure that upgrading from +4 to +5 would usually lead to an overall increase in production. In some cases, where hexes don't have anything in abundance, things may top out at a lower upgrade.

Second, I raised the overall amount of resources used for lower upgrades a fair amount. That flattens out the influence cost curve between upgrading an existing hex and taking over a new hex. It's still generally better to take a new hex than to upgrade an existing hex, but not by nearly as great a margin as before.

Third, I varied up the amounts per resource to require lots of the first resource, a moderate amount of the second resource, and just a bit of the third resource. That makes it easier to be self-sufficient as long as you can produce lots of whatever's abundant in the hex and some of whatever's next most abundant. If you can manage to produce at least a bit of the third resource (or mule/carry a little bit in), then you can get a noticeable boost in efficiency, but it's not such a huge difference that it basically becomes a requirement.

I left all the resource types alone and just altered the numbers for each resource. As an example, here are the new upkeep numbers for Inn Holdings:

+0: Bulk Food 11
+1: Bulk Food 14, Trade Goods 2
+2: Bulk Food 18, Trade Goods 4
+3: Bulk Food 22, Trade Goods 6, Bulk Wood 1
+4: Bulk Food 26, Trade Goods 9, Bulk Wood 2
+5: Bulk Food 30, Trade Goods 12, Bulk Wood 4

For comparison, these were the old numbers:

+0: Bulk Food 2
+1: Bulk Food 4, Trade Goods 3
+2: Bulk Food 8, Trade Goods 8
+3: Bulk Food 10, Trade Goods 10, Bulk Wood 10
+4: Bulk Food 17, Trade Goods 17, Bulk Wood 16
+5: Bulk Food 26, Trade Goods 26, Bulk Wood 25

The numbers are the same for every holding type, only the resource types change, same as before.

Comments/concerns?

Geez I am hardly leaving you time to work with all the discussion and questions! Simple one: Is this likely the final set for Holding upkeep, Sir Bob?
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Bob
Bringslite of Staalgard
Bob
I left all the resource types alone and just altered the numbers for each resource. As an example, here are the new upkeep numbers for Inn Holdings:

+0: Bulk Food 11
+1: Bulk Food 14, Trade Goods 2
+2: Bulk Food 18, Trade Goods 4
+3: Bulk Food 22, Trade Goods 6, Bulk Wood 1
+4: Bulk Food 26, Trade Goods 9, Bulk Wood 2
+5: Bulk Food 30, Trade Goods 12, Bulk Wood 4

Geez I am hardly leaving you time to work with all the discussion and questions! Simple one: Is this likely the final set for Holding upkeep, Sir Bob?

Yes, these are the likely numbers to deploy with EE 12. I believe they'll also still work once the holding production bonuses go in. Of course, we'll re-evaluate them as needed when other changes or new systems are deployed, but I don't think we have anything planned that will require it.
Decius
It's a bit tetchy and hasn't been idiot-tested but https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NuZJ00zvPEDYZncr68jpRlaoWhpHFCVrzMiYUbqCsHA should work to filter by minimum resource rating. Copies of it should work as well. Spreadsheet is not supported, feature requests and bug reports should be routed to your own todo.
Flari-Merchant
Thx Decius. Will be handy since I can add notes and things to it. Many thanks!
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Decius
Using the tools I'm not sharing yet: three fish hexes of note: overall production of trade goods from there is negligible.

Looking at herds of 600, all of them are full croplands with crops of 800. +5 ranching outposts would provide 66 trade goods and 24 food before upkeep. Putting harvesting outposts instead yields 120 food before upkeep. 66 trade goods have to be worth more than 96 food to build any ranches on those hexes. About 20 hexes offer better ratios of trade goods to other stuff, but are all strictly worse at producing trade goods.

Game hexes have similar relationships with Wood, except that the ratio makes trade goods even more valuable than wood: 44 trade goods and 44 food with an opportunity cost of 120 wood

Food, Wood, Orr, and Stone all have 100% outposts that rely on rathongs that go up to 800; trade goods get at best 75% of a resouerce that maxes at 600, so they will end up trading around 3:2 to 2:1 on a fair market where the other bulk resources trade at close to 1:1.

That's not nearly as bad as I had previously thought. There's enough pure hexes alone to cover enough raw production for upkeep, if enough bulk trade happens to satisfy demand.
Father Bronin
Bob
Bringslite of Staalgard
Bob
I left all the resource types alone and just altered the numbers for each resource. As an example, here are the new upkeep numbers for Inn Holdings:

+0: Bulk Food 11
+1: Bulk Food 14, Trade Goods 2
+2: Bulk Food 18, Trade Goods 4
+3: Bulk Food 22, Trade Goods 6, Bulk Wood 1
+4: Bulk Food 26, Trade Goods 9, Bulk Wood 2
+5: Bulk Food 30, Trade Goods 12, Bulk Wood 4

Geez I am hardly leaving you time to work with all the discussion and questions! Simple one: Is this likely the final set for Holding upkeep, Sir Bob?

Yes, these are the likely numbers to deploy with EE 12. I believe they'll also still work once the holding production bonuses go in. Of course, we'll re-evaluate them as needed when other changes or new systems are deployed, but I don't think we have anything planned that will require it.

I have not paid attention to holdings in a long time. Can someone refresh my memory on where the list of what resources are needed per holding type? If I need to start raising holding levels and paying for secondary and tertiary resources, where is the list?

FB
Flari-Merchant
Wiki > Holdings Tab
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
The Eternal Balance
Goblinary had the old info for each type
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
Nihimon
Is it possible to upgrade a Holding in-place? Something makes me think I read somewhere that you had to tear down the Outposts in a Hex if you wanted to place a Holding with a higher plus.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Duffy Swiftshadow
Nihimon
Is it possible to upgrade a Holding in-place? Something makes me think I read somewhere that you had to tear down the Outposts in a Hex if you wanted to place a Holding with a higher plus.

You can, I tested it a few weeks ago.
 
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