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When can we expect combat balance changes/un-nerfing?

Decius
Nihimon
There is a potential problem with 13 Keywords matching on Armor when it exacerbates another problem with extremely high Defense scores (like, over 350), where it becomes virtually impossible to apply enough stacking debuffs to lower the Defense score enough for normal attacks to start landing and being effective.
High defense scores needing specific strategies to overcome is a feature. A small group with tightly coordinated feats and good communication can outplay a somewhat larger group with uncoordinated feat choices and weak coordination.
Gross
Decius
Nihimon
There is a potential problem with 13 Keywords matching on Armor when it exacerbates another problem with extremely high Defense scores (like, over 350), where it becomes virtually impossible to apply enough stacking debuffs to lower the Defense score enough for normal attacks to start landing and being effective.
High defense scores needing specific strategies to overcome is a feature. A small group with tightly coordinated feats and good communication can outplay a somewhat larger group with uncoordinated feat choices and weak coordination.

I think Decius is right, its a feature rewarding focus on build and co-ordination, I am probably once again badly off in my calcs but looking at reflex in goblinary, from feats reflex seems to top out at tier base plus @129 pluses for a cleric (13 words match healer armor feat +52 reflex)), 11 levels glory domain (+20 base), 5 levels lightning reflexes (17 reflex), 10 levels reflex bonus (40 reflex)… so getting a save high enough that expendables can raise it to over 350 and prevent pretty much any attack getting a clean full effect would be a serious investment and need co-ordinated expendables triggering some combo of things like favoured (+10 base)/hasted (+15 reflex)/dodging (+20 reflex +40 with opportunity)/parrying (+20 reflex) to break 350 and neuter most reflex targeting attacks. Also most armour / feature feats don't have such high defence bonuses (well none in many cases for the features….).
Mercenary monster hunter from Forgeholm
War priest of Angradd… patiently waiting on Goblinworks to deliver him (and greataxes, Dwarves need 2 handed axes).
Fiery
348 is the highest achievable reflex without use of stones.
You are a Troll
I believe there are several useless sets of armor right now (maybe planned for classes that are not implemented?) that might be tweaked to fit Archer properly at 13 keywords.

There is also a problem with Mage in that the T3+2 and T3+3 keywords are reversed, making the T3+2 armor useless because the time you train enough ranks in Mage to use it you can use the T3+3.
Decius
Gross
Decius
Nihimon
There is a potential problem with 13 Keywords matching on Armor when it exacerbates another problem with extremely high Defense scores (like, over 350), where it becomes virtually impossible to apply enough stacking debuffs to lower the Defense score enough for normal attacks to start landing and being effective.
High defense scores needing specific strategies to overcome is a feature. A small group with tightly coordinated feats and good communication can outplay a somewhat larger group with uncoordinated feat choices and weak coordination.

I think Decius is right, its a feature rewarding focus on build and co-ordination, I am probably once again badly off in my calcs but looking at reflex in goblinary, from feats reflex seems to top out at tier base plus @129 pluses for a cleric (13 words match healer armor feat +52 reflex)), 11 levels glory domain (+20 base), 5 levels lightning reflexes (17 reflex), 10 levels reflex bonus (40 reflex)… so getting a save high enough that expendables can raise it to over 350 and prevent pretty much any attack getting a clean full effect would be a serious investment and need co-ordinated expendables triggering some combo of things like favoured (+10 base)/hasted (+15 reflex)/dodging (+20 reflex +40 with opportunity)/parrying (+20 reflex) to break 350 and neuter most reflex targeting attacks. Also most armour / feature feats don't have such high defence bonuses (well none in many cases for the features….).
And also every +1 to defense can be offset by a +1 to the attacker's offense.

+20 base attack
+40 type attack
+30 armor feature
+30 favored
+15 hasted
+30 mighty
+25 weapon mastery
+3k1d200 attack roll
+attack stone of the same level as the base defense stone
and that heavy melee fighter is starting to get close to even.
A rogue dropping afflicted, slowed, drained, and frightened can make that tank squishy again, while one doing oblivious instead of slowed turns the glass cannon into a glass pincushion.

More study is needed to evaluate whether Shrug Off effects can mitigate the death stacks. I still strongly suggest not being alone near a hostile, well trained rouge.
Edam
Decius
Gross
Decius
Nihimon
There is a potential problem with 13 Keywords matching on Armor when it exacerbates another problem with extremely high Defense scores (like, over 350), where it becomes virtually impossible to apply enough stacking debuffs to lower the Defense score enough for normal attacks to start landing and being effective.
High defense scores needing specific strategies to overcome is a feature. A small group with tightly coordinated feats and good communication can outplay a somewhat larger group with uncoordinated feat choices and weak coordination.

I think Decius is right, its a feature rewarding focus on build and co-ordination, I am probably once again badly off in my calcs but looking at reflex in goblinary, from feats reflex seems to top out at tier base plus @129 pluses for a cleric (13 words match healer armor feat +52 reflex)), 11 levels glory domain (+20 base), 5 levels lightning reflexes (17 reflex), 10 levels reflex bonus (40 reflex)… so getting a save high enough that expendables can raise it to over 350 and prevent pretty much any attack getting a clean full effect would be a serious investment and need co-ordinated expendables triggering some combo of things like favoured (+10 base)/hasted (+15 reflex)/dodging (+20 reflex +40 with opportunity)/parrying (+20 reflex) to break 350 and neuter most reflex targeting attacks. Also most armour / feature feats don't have such high defence bonuses (well none in many cases for the features….).
And also every +1 to defense can be offset by a +1 to the attacker's offense.

+20 base attack
+40 type attack
+30 armor feature
+30 favored
+15 hasted
+30 mighty
+25 weapon mastery
+3k1d200 attack roll
+attack stone of the same level as the base defense stone
and that heavy melee fighter is starting to get close to even.
A rogue dropping afflicted, slowed, drained, and frightened can make that tank squishy again, while one doing oblivious instead of slowed turns the glass cannon into a glass pincushion.

More study is needed to evaluate whether Shrug Off effects can mitigate the death stacks. I still strongly suggest not being alone near a hostile, well trained rouge.

+30 is empowered not favored but that does not effect the point being made

It is however worth pointing out the high save build talked about requires DEX 30, WIS 30, CON 15 and the high attack build is likely something similar.
Fiery
Dex 30 is only needed if you plan on giving yourself dodging through a utility - you can get dodging through energetic field, though that will admittedly not be 100% uptime unless you are able to coordinate will with more than one wizard. Hasting yourself is doable with a speed potion, and that costs you 25 reflex compared to dodging, but don't need a wizard, dex 30, or giving yourself opportunity. I also forgot race bonuses when I mentioned the 348 figure, so I'll amend that: if I wanted to be an elvish cleric for some god-forsaken reason, I could achieve 358 reflex pre-stone, or 353 with human.
MidniteArrow
All of these things are (or at least should be) of the type:

This will work great. Unless…

Yeah, you can get your reflex insanely high. Unless…

There's always a defense, and always a way to cut through it. It's rock paper scissors lizard spock.
Drakis [Arrodima] [Default Speaker] [PvE Soldier, Empyrean Legion ]
Nijah [Arrodima] [Leader, The Argent Defenders, PvE]
Jinh [Arrodima] [Leader, The Concordian Council]
Decius
Edam
Decius
Gross
Decius
Nihimon
There is a potential problem with 13 Keywords matching on Armor when it exacerbates another problem with extremely high Defense scores (like, over 350), where it becomes virtually impossible to apply enough stacking debuffs to lower the Defense score enough for normal attacks to start landing and being effective.
High defense scores needing specific strategies to overcome is a feature. A small group with tightly coordinated feats and good communication can outplay a somewhat larger group with uncoordinated feat choices and weak coordination.

I think Decius is right, its a feature rewarding focus on build and co-ordination, I am probably once again badly off in my calcs but looking at reflex in goblinary, from feats reflex seems to top out at tier base plus @129 pluses for a cleric (13 words match healer armor feat +52 reflex)), 11 levels glory domain (+20 base), 5 levels lightning reflexes (17 reflex), 10 levels reflex bonus (40 reflex)… so getting a save high enough that expendables can raise it to over 350 and prevent pretty much any attack getting a clean full effect would be a serious investment and need co-ordinated expendables triggering some combo of things like favoured (+10 base)/hasted (+15 reflex)/dodging (+20 reflex +40 with opportunity)/parrying (+20 reflex) to break 350 and neuter most reflex targeting attacks. Also most armour / feature feats don't have such high defence bonuses (well none in many cases for the features….).
And also every +1 to defense can be offset by a +1 to the attacker's offense.

+20 base attack
+40 type attack
+30 armor feature
+30 favored
+15 hasted
+30 mighty
+25 weapon mastery
+3k1d200 attack roll
+attack stone of the same level as the base defense stone
and that heavy melee fighter is starting to get close to even.
A rogue dropping afflicted, slowed, drained, and frightened can make that tank squishy again, while one doing oblivious instead of slowed turns the glass cannon into a glass pincushion.

More study is needed to evaluate whether Shrug Off effects can mitigate the death stacks. I still strongly suggest not being alone near a hostile, well trained rouge.

+30 is empowered not favored but that does not effect the point being made

It is however worth pointing out the high save build talked about requires DEX 30, WIS 30, CON 15 and the high attack build is likely something similar.
Str 30, con 15, and a consumable gets almost all the way there.

There's only a handful of cross-class feat combinations that are worth slotting even if you already have all the feats. Wizard masteries are one edge case where something that applies a lot when your attacks apply a little are the only ones that come to mind.
Edam
Glory Domain and Healer armor both need Dex 30 at maximum.

Decius
There's only a handful of cross-class feat combinations that are worth slotting even if you already have all the feats. Wizard masteries are one edge case where something that applies a lot when your attacks apply a little are the only ones that come to mind.

You need to explore cross class options more smile A cleric with a focus can get maximum bleed/afflicted/burning with the right cross classing. Takes about twice as long as a rogue to do it but they get there. There are also heaps of non clerics around that use focus as a second weapon (ranged wizards, rogues, fighters) or wear healer armor for the saves and regen. There are archers wearing evangelist because of the nerfed archer armor. I could list more .. but trade secrets you now smile
 
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