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Mage Tanks

Nihimon
3 second cooldown on Devourer's Caress would be good, and something like 5% Cure sounds reasonable, too.

Just don't "fix" it like Windrider got "fixed" (I never use it any more).

And yeah, there's definitely something to making other Roles more effective, instead of just nerfing Wizards.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Decius
I like the idea of devourer's caress as a spell that does more damage and healing. It costs more power per healing than a cure series spell.
Edam
I would be a little wary of nerfing it just because it is popular and a few non wizard types dislike it. That road leads eventually to a game where no-one tries anything that needs considerable XP invested, as you know it will get a nerf bat the instant enough people train into it. Or quit in droves as happened with longbows.

A better solution is always to provide interesting alternatives so there are meaningful choices.

In PvE, devourers caress mages are not really authentic tanks as when the stamina runs out, or they get interrupted, or they get multiple mobs on them, they die. They cannot tank more than one legend level mob at a time, something a good cleric tank with healer 13 and superior tokens or T3 potions can do with ease. The cannot get continual crits the way an evangelist can or apply stacks near as well as clerics and shortbow rogues (essential when dealing with high hitpoint mobs) and are useless against undead. They are one trick ponys.

I will say the fact that minor cure has a 12 second cooldown whereas devourer's caress none is a little odd but applying anything other than that a minor cooldown to devourer's caress would mean no-one would ever slot it again.

be careful, if you start nerfing everything interesting or effective again (the way it was in early EE) you will get a lovely balanced game that is excruciating boring because everything is the same that no one wants to play.
Fiery
While I agree you want to be cautious when nerfing, I've yet to see anything to lead me to believe that caress is anything but far above the general power level of most abilities, and powerful enough to warp playstyles and strategies both in pve and pvp all by itself. This is on a class that has soooo much else available to it as well. A minor cooldown would be fine, I believe.

Also, to state it again, Devourer's Caress is NOT interruptible.
Starchild
Decius
I like the idea of devourer's caress as a spell that does more damage and healing. It costs more power per healing than a cure series spell.

Yep this may be a tiny bit over-powered but really I don't think we should be nerfing stuff, and certainly not with the wild abandon that it was done in the early days. This is a self-cure only that works in some very specific conditions and uses more power than the cleric equivalent. It basically allows a mage to become a kind of tank which is an interesting but not invalid choice. Spamming the spell will burn through power so it's not like the mage can cut down big mobs quickly - when out with a group Starchild using this combo is slower than most other classes at killing her mob. Rogues and fighters kill faster and clerics kill at about the same speed. All in all I think this is a fashion thing rather than a "no brainer"
Doom! Nightstalkers, evil crafters and bandits, Oh my!
Fiery
I think caress's value will go way up with the ai changes in ee12, because survivability will be even more important than now. It is also very powerful in pvp - dueling nihimon on the test server, I find myself unable to defeat him as a focus cleric. While I should *want* to be in melee range of a wizard, I have to actively avoid it to have any chance. That is unbalancing and deserving of a nerf. A minor cooldown should keep it relevant while not overpowered.
MidniteArrow
It should also provoke. All cantrips should unless you use the very fast combat casting utility, which should have RNG failure.

And there should be a fighter attack that puts that on a long cooldown.
Drakis [Arrodima] [Default Speaker] [PvE Soldier, Empyrean Legion ]
Nijah [Arrodima] [Leader, The Argent Defenders, PvE]
Jinh [Arrodima] [Leader, The Concordian Council]
Flari-Merchant
Wouldn't it be more important that at least 2 roles(built sensibly) can defeat a wizard than that any can defeat a wizard? I had thought that the approach was more of a rock-paper-scissors thing than that any certain class can defeat all others. Maybe once archery comes back to a viable working state, wizards will have their match again.

It does seem weird that a wizard can toe-to-toe with a fighter. That, I'll say needs a look into. Some should be powerful at ranged combat. Some at close combat and some at a mix of both… like rogues.

In any case what we are playing here is basically a paid alpha and there is some time available to tinker with things. Don' misunderstand me. I know that alpha is usually an eminent "wipe" situation and this has permanence but with SO MUCH needing work, it feels pretty alpha to me.
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
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Nihimon
Bringslite of Staalgard
Wouldn't it be more important that at least 2 roles(built sensibly) can defeat a wizard than that any can defeat a wizard?

For the record, testing PvP on the test server:
Nihimon beats Fiery's Cleric pretty much all the time.
Fiery's Rogue beats Nihimon pretty much all the time.
Nihimon and Nijah's Fighter go back and forth pretty much evenly.

In a sense, that's pretty balanced.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Flari-Merchant
Nihimon
Bringslite of Staalgard
Wouldn't it be more important that at least 2 roles(built sensibly) can defeat a wizard than that any can defeat a wizard?

For the record, testing PvP on the test server:
Nihimon beats Fiery's Cleric pretty much all the time.
Fiery's Rogue beats Nihimon pretty much all the time.
Nihimon and Nijah's Fighter go back and forth pretty much evenly.

In a sense, that's pretty balanced.
Exactly! And as I think Edam was trying to point out: Rather than Nerf the hell out of everything, try and make sure that everything has a few counters that can best them.
What roles need are cool combinations that make them interesting and attractive to play. There is always a great deal of soloing. Every role and buildout deserves a tricksie combo that makes that viable. Not dominating, just viable for solo.
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
 
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