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Mage Tanks

Flari-Merchant
Duffy Swiftshadow
Bringslite of Staalgard
I am not convinced it needs a plain old nerf though. What it needs is a counter move or two or three that could oppose it for those that are prepared for it. That could be by hooking it more into negative energy damage, making negative energy damage "mitigators" worth a crap, some counter moves for others against it, or something else.

I fully admit that I don't play mages/semi-mages so I am not the best player to judge how affective wizards are with or without that combo.

I'm all for strategic counters and was somewhat thinking along this line, but it just struck me that specifically prepping to hard counter what boils down to two Cantrips seems a little silly. Something probably needs to be done, I don't know what exactly, but definitely something.

If you hook up the damage AND the bonus damage for conditions and debuffs to the same channel, probably excepting like some specific "types" bonus i.e. "bonus base damage", then you would be prepping to counter or mitigate specific types like "negative energy damage" or fire. Just like it probably is supposed to work, isn't it? Not prepping for a single feat or expendable…

IF you can parse sense from the above that is. lol
Smitty
I kind of want to see what DC is like with the new escalations- ( for PvE concerns)..
My first guess is it will still need to be tweaked-
but id do it in stages- reduce the heal to 5%- then if that isnt enough-
Look into ways to making it a liability-
perhaps add a debuff to yourself like Open for a round?-
if that is still wonky- then add the cool-down and effectively kill the combo completely - ( obviously my last choice..)
Note for non wizards
– one thing that is different than other classes- is wands staffs have the 2 T3 keywords on rank 6 cantrips -
So you cant just tell wizards to pick a new cantrip and it will work seamlessly with your current line up-
because not all cantrips will have a T3 keyword- just something to keep in mind. Folks that use DC at T3 cant fully use eels touch , or cantrips with the extraplanar rank 6 keyword.


semi off topic-

Affliction, bleed, burning- do those things actually cause hate as they build up?
it feels like the damage that is done when the attack hits is the only thing that counts for hate/agro, is that correct?
Do affliction, bleed, burn have the same reduction if continually applied?

I know stun turns to immobilize if continually applied- but how are damage over time conditions reduced to ____ if continually applied ( or are they not reduced at all?)
You are a Troll
There are nine other Cantrips to choose from for T3+3 Diminishing Wand users with full keyword matches. (The real screwed wizards are the Quickening using ones).

Wizards running right up to huge, heavy hitting Ogres, Knight/Duergar/Mordant Legends and Huge Elementals just doesn't seem very in keeping with the fantasy tropes here in Golarion. Wizards are super versatile, let's not make them Tanks too.
Giorgio
I also find it odd that some Wizards are jumping into melee combat without a care in the world (it seems to me), when my Dwarven Fighter (Spear/Longbow/Trophy Charm) is almost always told to leave the heavy armor (Dragoon/Unbreakable)at home, and instead use medium (Archer)when fighting T3 Escalations. That just seems off somehow…
First Elder Durin Steelforge; Leader of Forgeholm; Founder of Steelforge Engineering Company

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Bob
Smitty
Affliction, bleed, burning- do those things actually cause hate as they build up?
it feels like the damage that is done when the attack hits is the only thing that counts for hate/agro, is that correct?

That's one of the things we'd like to improve on the hate lists. Currently, it's only direct damage done and direct damage received, not damage received as the result of things like bleeding.

Smitty
Do affliction, bleed, burn have the same reduction if continually applied?

I know stun turns to immobilize if continually applied- but how are damage over time conditions reduced to ____ if continually applied ( or are they not reduced at all?)

I'm not sure exactly how each of these states is currently functioning, but I can say that the design calls for some things to convert to others under various circumstances, while others aren't supposed to convert to anything else. In particular, I don't see anything about afflicted, bleeding or burning doing any conversion, just gaining or losing stacks.
Decius
Timed effects that include an inherent Interrupt++ need to reduce to something that doesn't.
Stacking effects that are based on the number of stacks can reduce that number.

I'd like to see 'Attuned' and 'Resistant' be useful enough to apply. At a rough guess doubling the resistance bonus for the energy types would make me consider bringing some potions when fighting appropriate creatures. Having much better feedback about what types of damage were incoming would also help.
Mistwalker
I am opposed to any tinkering with cantrips at this time.

Full disclosure, I was an early adopter of Devourer's Caress, use it extensively. I still often die.

Points that people don't seem to be taking into consideration:

Ammo is coming and will likely have an effect on cantrip use.
A cleric will have less trouble vs a mage in melee, once charges run out and the cleric's melee weapon can shine.
Rogues using daggers, throwing them, aren't affected by ammo, so basically have unlimited daggers (T3 daggers) for throwing.

Devourer's Caress requires the mage to be in melee combat with opponents.
If the mage get's into trouble, getting out is almost impossible, especially against legends that have slowed you.

You only heal while you are doing damage against opponents - running means no healing, while clerics can still heal (as can others, like fighters with augment and what not).

Reducing the amount of healing (especially if it is large reduction) or putting a timer on it will mean that is a cantrip that is no longer slotted, as mages will likely not be able to survive in melee combat - take damage much faster than you can heal.

Other points:
As stated by Nihimon earlier in the thread:
Nihimon beats Fiery's Cleric pretty much all the time.
Fiery's Rogue beats Nihimon pretty much all the time.
Nihimon and Nijah's Fighter go back and forth pretty much evenly.
Which to me, means that it is balanced when looked at as a whole.

The full system is not completely in, let's not tinker with things until everything has been implemented. That would be a better time to start tinkering with things. Otherwise we get results like longbows no longer being used because some complained enough that a nerf was applied (apparently many archers quit, while others became crafters) - how many archers are there still actively in the game now?

Mistwalker
P.S.

This thread should be in crowdforging, not "In Game Bugs", as Devourer's Caress is currently working as intended.
Flari-Merchant
I have a T3 archer but I almost never use him unless all other PVE characters(that I might use) are so far away that it is ridiculous.
You are a Troll
Mistwalker
Reducing the amount of healing (especially if it is large reduction) or putting a timer on it will mean that is a cantrip that is no longer slotted, as mages will likely not be able to survive in melee combat - take damage much faster than you can heal.

DING DING DING - give that man a stuffed animal! From time immemorial people in Robes generally do not survive well in melee combat! (unless of course there is an unbalancing OP Cantrip they can use that heals them for 7% of their max health every 1.1 seconds)

Also, just to let you in a little secret - try evasion and a Cure potion for healing why running away smile
 
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