Cookies Disclaimer

I agree Our site saves small pieces of text information (cookies) on your device in order to authenticate logins, deliver better content and provide statistical analysis. You can adjust your browser settings to prevent our site from using cookies, but doing so will prevent some aspects of the site from functioning properly.

Scrimmage:Tools and/or Better Methods than Sieges to Resolve Conflict

Duffy Swiftshadow
Fiery
I do believe, as I'm sure GW believes, that pvp is the core that will breath life into all facets of the game. Everyone in a game like this takes part in pvp either directly or indirectly, as it drives demand in the economy. PVE will become more competitive as population increases, and monster hexes become more contested, and as the rewards (recipes, expendables, coin) become more valuable. Blacklists will have more meaning when auction houses become far more active than they are now, and when high-end (and in many cases ungodly expensive) buildings are required for the best training. Settlements and groups will be forced to choose what training they offer at the high-end, and you're unlikely to get all of the high-end training unless you can go to many different settlements, again making blacklists more impactful.

There is another problem: while taking a holding or two is often not very impactful, and could be an appropriate response to many low-end offenses, it often causes the side that lost holdings to dig in and become more belligerent, forcing further escalation of conflicts. I do believe the existence of sieges will help curb this behavior, as now there is a true lose condition.

As part of a way to resolve what I see as horrible resource problems that exist right now, I'll be proposing another layer of pvp that exists below sieges and distinct from the holding fight - it could help this issue as well.

While I agree that everything you mention is important, I will point out that everything you mentioned is a passive deterrent for conflict to happen in the first place, not a way to resolve or encourage conflict. That could just as easily turn into stagnation. The end result being that any conflict is started by folks that just don't care or are bored, thus none of those meaningful choices impact them. I think that's an important distinction and why we definitely need both those large scale passive deterrents to make the big scale decisions important, but still allow smaller scale conflicts to thrive as a more common occurence.
Duffy Swiftshadow
Bringslite of Staalgard
Ok, tools to be able to "see"(locate) other players in larger areas. Tools to allow counters for the first tool. Tools for assassination to… put a gimp on a player for a certain time?

Fiery
I'm sure Duffy would never want assassination tools!

Nothing's more personal that a dagger in the back! But all seriousness in the original blogs the mechanic's end result was a way to impact settlements via a personal interaction. Adapting that to impacting a player instead seems plausible, albeit exactly what those impacts could be was only vaguely outlined.

What's sounds appropriate and more interesting game-play: Me and my buddies go attempt to burn some holdings down and maybe siege a settlement cause Random Guy A keeps "stealing my flowers" OR I (and maybe a buddy or two) use these theoretically new tools to find the person, sneak up on them, and kill them whereas they receive a temporary gimping of some sort? I get they might not be able to do a lot right now but even something as simple as removing our current temporary 'threading' so your stuff has the normal husk chances is a big enough reward for using the 'assassination' mechanic.
Flari-Merchant
It would be nice if impactful things could be done to the actual character that is causing the issue rather than having to accelerate towards full war to get at them. Since alignment is pretty much lip service to any but heavy RP players, it would be kind of nice to not feel pressured to kick players from companies and/or settlements when they do "naughty things".

What could be done if Influence was purely a character based metric? It moved with the characters and got spent by characters. It could still cumulatively be something which companies used, for "banking"(read placing holdings) but wasn't used for feuding or sieges.
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Duffy Swiftshadow
Since I'm riffing hard now:

For the tracking/divination I imagine something similar but simpler than EVE's scanning system. Maybe a detection radius of a few hexes or you need to pick an 'angle' from your current hex, requires standing still and casting. Then it can passively compare your perception against the stealth of anyone in the hexes to detect them and only gives you a vague 'somewhere in the northern half of the hex' result if you spot them. Maybe the more you beat their score the more accurate or informative the results are.

Something like that would go a long way towards actually engaging with one another. If all the times I got ganked exploring in EVE is any indication…
Fiery
Duffy Swiftshadow
While I agree that everything you mention is important, I will point out that everything you mentioned is a passive deterrent for conflict to happen in the first place, not a way to resolve or encourage conflict. That could just as easily turn into stagnation. The end result being that any conflict is started by folks that just don't care or are bored, thus none of those meaningful choices impact them. I think that's an important distinction and why we definitely need both those large scale passive deterrents to make the big scale decisions important, but still allow smaller scale conflicts to thrive as a more common occurence.

Well, there are a few different facets to it. These things I pointed out will decrease small-scale conflict by themselves - but other things will encourage conflict. As population increases, and the economy actually takes off, everything will be more competitive - escalations, gathering, holding spots, etc - which will encourage smaller-scale conflicts. Hopefully a balance of increased encouragement and deterrence will hit the right balance such that people accept fighting over the small stuff, while acknowledging further escalation isn't necessarily useful for either side - the losing side would risk losing a settlement, while the winning side would still be looking at a long and grueling process to start and maintain a siege, with many variables present.
Flari-Merchant
Duffy Swiftshadow
Bringslite of Staalgard
Ok, tools to be able to "see"(locate) other players in larger areas. Tools to allow counters for the first tool. Tools for assassination to… put a gimp on a player for a certain time?

Fiery
I'm sure Duffy would never want assassination tools!

Nothing's more personal that a dagger in the back! But all seriousness in the original blogs the mechanic's end result was a way to impact settlements via a personal interaction. Adapting that to impacting a player instead seems plausible, albeit exactly what those impacts could be was only vaguely outlined.

What's sounds appropriate and more interesting game-play: Me and my buddies go attempt to burn some holdings down and maybe siege a settlement cause Random Guy A keeps "stealing my flowers" OR I (and maybe a buddy or two) use these theoretically new tools to find the person, sneak up on them, and kill them whereas they receive a temporary gimping of some sort? I get they might not be able to do a lot right now but even something as simple as removing our current temporary 'threading' so your stuff has the normal husk chances is a big enough reward for using the 'assassination' mechanic.

What about a "Grudge" mechanic that is below a feud level situation? The player with the grudge banks influence and can keep it going until he settles the particular Grudge. You finally catch the rascal, settle your grudge, he takes a temp debuff and you drop the grudge…
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Duffy Swiftshadow
Bringslite of Staalgard
It would be nice if impactful things could be done to the actual character that is causing the issue rather than having to accelerate towards full war to get at them. Since alignment is pretty much lip service to any but heavy RP players, it would be kind of nice to not feel pressured to kick players from companies and/or settlements when they do "naughty things".

What could be done if Influence was purely a character based metric? It moved with the characters and got spent by characters. It could still cumulatively be something which companies used, for "banking"(read placing holdings) but wasn't used for feuding or sieges.

I'm of the opinion that influence needs to be removed from territory warfare side of the game and used more like a temporary currency that the company can generate and spend on short lived things. I imagine it to be the currency for incidental PvP such as feuds (company brawls only basically), banditry, assassinations, raiding, or anything else like that. Leaving it with the territory control systems causes a bunch of oddities that I'm afraid just won't scale well as the population gets bigger.

Bringslite of Staalgard
What about a "Grudge" mechanic that is below a feud level situation? Because of player shenanigans, maybe it could have a much longer timer and simply cost more and more "banked" Influence to keep it active, not meaning exponential but like 20 more each 7 days or something. You finally catch the rascal, settle your grudge, he takes a temp debuff and you drop the grudge…

Sure, I was thinking of a 'vendetta' option along that line when I started my first post before I remembered assassinations were originally outlined pretty close to that idea anyways. But yea something like that with an impact at the end for whatever the 'win' condition ends up being is what I'm looking for. I think defining that win condition is the difficult part with this line of concepts.
Dreggo
Bringslite of Staalgard
Duffy Swiftshadow
Bringslite of Staalgard
Ok, tools to be able to "see"(locate) other players in larger areas. Tools to allow counters for the first tool. Tools for assassination to… put a gimp on a player for a certain time?

Fiery
I'm sure Duffy would never want assassination tools!

Nothing's more personal that a dagger in the back! But all seriousness in the original blogs the mechanic's end result was a way to impact settlements via a personal interaction. Adapting that to impacting a player instead seems plausible, albeit exactly what those impacts could be was only vaguely outlined.

What's sounds appropriate and more interesting game-play: Me and my buddies go attempt to burn some holdings down and maybe siege a settlement cause Random Guy A keeps "stealing my flowers" OR I (and maybe a buddy or two) use these theoretically new tools to find the person, sneak up on them, and kill them whereas they receive a temporary gimping of some sort? I get they might not be able to do a lot right now but even something as simple as removing our current temporary 'threading' so your stuff has the normal husk chances is a big enough reward for using the 'assassination' mechanic.

What about a "Grudge" mechanic that is below a feud level situation? The player with the grudge banks influence and can keep it going until he settles the particular Grudge. You finally catch the rascal, settle your grudge, he takes a temp debuff and you drop the grudge…

I like that. Maybe the target of your grudge becomes visible on your map for an x number of hexes radius.
Paddy Fitzpatrick
Finally someone brought up divination! Been saying for many months this would fix a lot of these issues.

Maybe short ranged alarm gems as well as traps could add more. Something smaller in addition to the main divination system that says someone is in hex and if close enough for a long enough time it could ID them.

Of course, if one finds the gem they could destroy it and traps might not always go off but that is part of the whole measures and counter measures interplay.
Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord
Flari-Merchant
Nihimon has been wanting divination to have a stronger role since before we had a game to play. Actually not sure if he still does or if this is one reason he thought it was needed.
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
 
You must be logged into an enrolled account to post