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Raiding

Bob
For EE 13, we're adding the ability to raid holdings in order to steal bulk resources. In any hex that has outposts eligible for capture that day (i.e. running the capture game), that hex's holding will be eligible for raiding that day (i.e. running the raiding game). Raiding a holding works exactly like capturing a holding, except that successfully hitting the number of required points will result in a husk appearing in front of one of the holding's doors that contains all of that day's bulk resource production plus 5% of any bulk resources in the Holding Upkeep vault (and will not result in capturing the holding.

In addition, unlike capturing, there's no requirement that feuds be at least 48 hours old before raiding a holding.
Hobson Fiffledown
Some raid questions -

"Outposts eligible for capture"
Does that mean hexes which are protected from siege by four surrounding friendly hexes are also protected from raids?

"Works exactly like capturing a holding"
Is it the same influence cost (i.e. it's behind the same PvE grindwall)?
Does one feud cost cover both raiding and siege?
(i.e Could I feud and then choose to siege [after 48 hours] or raid at will?)
Is there any increased influence return from completing a successful raid (is there any with successful sieges anymore?)?
After the 48 hour mark, can you both raze the outposts and raid the holding on day 1 of a hex-siege?

Initial thoughts - Based on the "if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball" principle, it seems like there is only one real decision to make. Are some bulk materials more valuable to you than the net value of razing an enemy hex? So far, I don't see any reason why the repercussions and reactions of a raid target would be any different than the current siege target reactions. Am I missing some nuance here?

If you raze someone's holding do the vault items still go into an invisible safety vault, or will that be dropped as a husk now too?
This space for rent.
Duffy Swiftshadow
So raiding can only happen 3 days a week during the pvp window hours on hexes not protected by 4 adjacent friendly holdings?

Is raiding and feuding mechanically different options or is it somewhat inferred? If they are the same and it's inferred does that mean a capture attempt is automatically a raiding attempt?
Fiery
I believe Bob had previously said that raiding can take place during your PvP window all 7 days of the week, do it is not just a trade-off between a raid and a capture. You can raid in more situations than you can capture.
Duffy Swiftshadow
Fiery
I believe Bob had previously said that raiding can take place during your PvP window all 7 days of the week, do it is not just a trade-off between a raid and a capture. You can raid in more situations than you can capture.

I assumed that based on previous statements, but the wording of this post made me question that assumption/memory, hence I wouldn't mind some clarification in case the details have changed.
Bob
Duffy Swiftshadow
Fiery
I believe Bob had previously said that raiding can take place during your PvP window all 7 days of the week, do it is not just a trade-off between a raid and a capture. You can raid in more situations than you can capture.

I assumed that based on previous statements, but the wording of this post made me question that assumption/memory, hence I wouldn't mind some clarification in case the details have changed.

Hmm, the main thing I remember saying was that we didn't want the 48 hour restriction to apply to raids, but it's certainly possible I was at one point thinking that we'd allow raids far more often than we allowed captures. Another point I once mentioned was that when we get to doing things like escalation invasions (basically raids by monsters), that we probably wouldn't want to let hexes be completely protected from that, so I was already thinking of various rules that would open protected hexes up to attacks. I'm pretty sure I'd always been thinking of that as completely removing the hex's protection, not just bypassing the protection, and still only allowing those invasions and such on the 3 days selected by the settlement. Still, maybe a did post something implying otherwise, or at least speculating along those lines, but I can't seem to find such a post and I don't remember anything similar enough to come up with a decent search for one.

Being raided isn't nearly as huge a deal as being captured, so it wouldn't be completely unreasonable to make it available more often than capturing is. That said, it's still not a good thing to have done to you, so allowing it on the days you've said you're not available to defend seems problematic. It also seemed simplest just to have 2 PvP-allowed states (Outpost Capture-able and Holding Raid-able, or Outposts Overrun and Holding Capture-able), with both of those states being blocked or allowed by the same things (protected status, 3-day windows, neighboring siege equipment).
Bob
Duffy Swiftshadow
So raiding can only happen 3 days a week during the pvp window hours on hexes not protected by 4 adjacent friendly holdings?

As said above, yes, that's the idea, though any combination of things that allows the PvP windows to open that day will also enable raiding. For example, if there's a neighboring siege engine that was feuding the hex owner when the servers start back up, then capturing and raiding would be allowed regardless of protected status. We're also likely to open up both raiding and capturing if an escalation decides to invade, which may fully ignore protected status, or at least ignore protected status in hexes neighboring the escalation.

Duffy Swiftshadow
Is raiding and feuding mechanically different options or is it somewhat inferred? If they are the same and it's inferred does that mean a capture attempt is automatically a raiding attempt?

They're the same mechanic, but they're happening at different locations on the same day, and the results are different. The original idea was that raiding was done at outposts, just like the initial captures, and somehow the attackers specified whether they were raiding or capturing. We decided to simplify that by just saying that (if at least one outpost wasn't overrun the previous day) if you're getting points for being near an outpost, you're trying to capture that outpost, resulting in an overrun outpost. If you're getting points for being near a holding, then you're trying to raid the holding, resulting in a husk with bulk resources. If the outposts were overrun the previous day, then getting points near the holding means you're trying to capture the holding, resulting in a destroyed or claimed holding.
Bob
Hobson Fiffledown
Is it the same influence cost (i.e. it's behind the same PvE grindwall)?
Does one feud cost cover both raiding and siege?
(i.e Could I feud and then choose to siege [after 48 hours] or raid at will?)

A feud is required, but it's all the same feuds. It's just that the feud has to be at least 48 hours old before you can start getting capture points, while you can start getting raiding points as soon as the feud as active. With the minimum one-hour delay after declaring a feud, that means you can start raiding as little as one hour after your declaration, and you can start capturing 48 hours after that, all with the same feud. After the 48 hour point, you can raid or capture at will, as long as the feud remains active.

Hobson Fiffledown
Is there any increased influence return from completing a successful raid (is there any with successful sieges anymore?)?

Nope, doesn't affect influence at all. Technically, there isn't really an increased influence return from a successful siege, it's just that you can apply the influence from the feud directly to the holding you just captured without any influence loss. However, when you tear it down or otherwise lose the holding, the standard 25% influence loss kicks in at that point. It's more like a successful siege lets you delay the influence loss until you lose the holding. Since raiding just involves stealing some resources, there's nowhere to bank the influence and delay the loss, so no influence advantage from a successful raid.

Hobson Fiffledown
After the 48 hour mark, can you both raze the outposts and raid the holding on day 1 of a hex-siege?

Theoretically yes, if you raid the holding first. If you overrun the outposts first, that ends the PvP window for the day, I believe.

Hobson Fiffledown
Initial thoughts - Based on the "if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball" principle, it seems like there is only one real decision to make. Are some bulk materials more valuable to you than the net value of razing an enemy hex? So far, I don't see any reason why the repercussions and reactions of a raid target would be any different than the current siege target reactions. Am I missing some nuance here?
Well, you can do the raid with less warning, and you can supplement your bulk resources that way without having to deal with controlling territory. Your target might also be a little less upset about some lost resources than about having to put down a new set of holdings and outposts. Then again, they might not. This also could provide some extra income for an unattached company that just wants to PvE/PvP, but doesn't want to join a settlement (limiting though that may be), assuming they can find a black market buyer for their illicit gains.

Hobson Fiffledown
If you raze someone's holding do the vault items still go into an invisible safety vault, or will that be dropped as a husk now too?

They still just remain in the invisible safety vault, at least for now. Long-term, the plan was to empty all vaults into a husk, but that seems like too severe a punishment until the population is high enough to expect everyone to keep a better eye on each and every holding.
Flari-Merchant
Here is an issue that pops a flag for me. If my holding setup is +2 or greater the raiders can pop a donkey on site which is convenient. Maybe too convenient…
Flari-Merchant
Also what happens to bulk that raiders can't carry away? Goes back to Mother Earth?
 
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